main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Saga What does the Saga tell us about the best way for this galaxy to be governed?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Ghost, Jul 18, 2018.

?

Which way is Saga pointing to as the best way to govern this galaxy?

  1. Galactic Republic with some minor/moderate reforms

    46.2%
  2. Something New (big changes: a Multi-State Galaxy, a Radically-Different Republic, etc.)

    53.8%
  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    What does the Saga tell us about the best way for this galaxy to be governed?

    The OT was about restoring what was lost (Republic and Jedi), and hoping to make the new better than the old. Get the old car running again by replacing a few parts, and repaint it.

    The PT showed how they were lost, but also how flawed they (Republic and Jedi) were. The old car doesn't just need a repaint, it needs to be replaced completely, and didn't work well with the owners living in Manhattan anyways.

    The ST shows a perfect storm absolutely destroyed the restored, somewhat improved system (Republic and Jedi), with talk about how it was already flawed even after just being restored. The old, repainted car has broken down again.


    We don't know yet if the ST will end with simply restoring it again with maybe some more small improvements but still flawed, or if it's about completely remaking the system. Redoing the car, replacing a few parts, or deciding to just buy a subway pass since they live in Manhattan, to conclude that metaphor.




    If the saga is telling us a more radical change is needed:

    Maybe it's moving towards a multi-state galaxy split between 200+ truly-independent powers in an alliance, with about 50 being equally the most powerful of these new states... something like that.

    Maybe it's moving towards a direct democracy via hyperspace voting.

    That kind of "thinking outside the box," for an example of real drastic changes.

    What other huge changes for the galaxy could there be?

    It's hard to even imagine, for me, but it doesn't seem unlikely that the saga might be trying to tell us that there's some fatal flaw with the galactic republics we've seen so far, that it's not supposed to be restored, that there might be a better option.




    If the saga is telling us the Republic just needs a few reforms are needed:

    OR is the saga trying to tell us that only a "soft" reboot of the (New) Republic is needed? If so, what kinds of minor changes, to find a happy medium that avoids the flaws of both the Old Republic and the New Republic?

    These are reforms the New Republic already made after ROTJ, to be better than the Old Republic of the PT. These reforms were for both the idealistic loyalists who became Rebel Alliance founders (people like Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Padme Amidala) as well as to draw in the idealistic former Separatists who wanted a more decentralized government.
    *direct, democratic elections for every Senator (no more appointments)
    *worlds were temporarily elected as the capital of the Republic, from Chandrila to Hosnian Prime and likely more (no longer Coruscant-centric)
    *a weakened Chancellorship (and no longer called "Supeme")
    *equal votes/Senators for worlds
    *worlds were given more power, having their own local starfleets and defense forces, with the blessing of the Senate
    *a reduced galactic military, passing Military Disarmament Act about a year after ROTJ

    But for the obvious flaws of the New Republic:


    *there was a hyper-partisan split between the Centrist party (who wanted a stronger central government, with weaker planetary governments, like the ~1800 Hamilton-led faction in the early USA) and the Populist party (who wanted a weaker central government, with stronger planetary governments, like the ~1800 Jefferson-led faction in the early USA)


    *the hyper-partisan split, combined with a powerless ceremonial Chancellor for an executive, and with each side controlling less than half of the Senate (with the rest being neutral/swing votes) meant hardly anything ever got done... part of the reason why Leia quit as Senator in frustration, even though she was a Populist she learned that the Centrists had a point... the New Republic Senate might have even been do hard to agree that they didn't even have a Chancellor at all for a few years


    *some of the Centrists later become separatists and peacefully seceded and declared independence from the New Republic, and tricked into joining the First Order (thought at the time to just be a puny force that came out of hiding in the Unknown Regions)

    *after the First Order worlds peacefully declared independence from the New Republic, it seems they elected Chancellor Villecham (presumably a Populist, who would then have a majority), and he ignored the threat of them joining with the military force in the Unknown Regions (likely because he was a populist and didn't believe in a strong government or military, to prevent the New Republic from becoming another Empire)

    *Leia was so unpopular back on Hosnian Prime, even among former Populist allies, and the Senate was so corrupt, that she feared she'd be assassinated if she went back

    *some New Republic Senators were so corrupt they were still secretly on the First Order's side, getting paid off by them through corporate connections

    *there were also arms dealers and military corporations who were secretly funding the First Order (as well as the Republic and Resistance) without being caught or stopped by the New Republic (now seen in film too, on Canto Bight)

    *Lor San Tekka says there is a lot of despair in the galaxy.

    *And after TFA: Hosnian Prime is destroyed, its Senate is wiped out, its galactic Starfleet is wiped out... Rey in TLJ says the major systems might only hold off for a few weeks, even with Starkiller Base destroyed (though before the Supremacy's destruction and the Snoke-Ren transition of power)

    *it allowed separatist worlds to peacefully secede, and didn't try to force worlds to join either (and was therefore smaller than the Old Republic and the Old Empire)

    So if we do return to the New Republic (Newer Republic? Third Republic? :p ), after the survivors on the Millennium Falcon rally the others (including hopefully some systems with strong planetary defense forces pooling their forces together, able to withstand the siege in-between TLJ and IX), some reforms we might see:
    1. Some way to crackdown on the military corporations and arms dealers (like the ones we saw on Canto Bight, first alluded to in the TFA VD). But how??
    2. Some way to crackdown on Senate corruption. But how??
    3. A stronger (and more widespread) executive than what the New Republic had, still can't become another Palpatine. But how??
    4. A stronger (and more widespread) Republic Fleet, without playing right into the arms dealers' hands. But how??​

    And more for my own personal tastes...
    5. officially eliminate the "Elder Houses"/titles of nobility from having any special political status, and make all planetary/system/sector governors democratically-elected just like their Senators are in theory.
    6. keep the rotating capital (but make it more regular, if it wasn't already)... or just have a mobile Capital (like the FO's Supremacy... just give it hyperspace shields :p )
    7. maybe balance a stronger executive by also introducing a population-based House of Representatives/Parliament... or just have the second legislative chamber be direct democracy/referenda
    8. don't sign a treaty with any remnant of the mass-murdering and tyrannical First Order unless it's total surrender, to prevent a repeat​




    So, based on the PT and OT and ST and Anthology films, which way is the Saga trying to say is the best way for the governance of this galaxy?
     
  2. crazyewok

    crazyewok Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2017
    The republic was as bad if not worse than the Empire.

    It was too big, bloated and corrupt..

    Either you need a strong iron fist like the Empire or break it up into thousands of decentralised states.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  3. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Don't bother with a Galactic government, it'll just be destroyed in a couple decades anyway. And the cycle will begin all over again.
     
    Snafu55 likes this.
  4. crazyewok

    crazyewok Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2017
    More detailed. The best would be a constitutional monarchy.

    Have emperor who is head of a strong armed forces and foreign policy supported by a high command of grand admirals.
    He is restrained by a constitution which is backed up by a senate that has the power to remove the emperor if he violates the constitution and can install a new one.

    Planets themselves have a lot of autonomy provided they obey a few rules and pay taxes to the empire.
     
    DarthTalonx likes this.
  5. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    This is a GREAT question.

    I feel like a Galactic Empire, with Jedi oversight.

    In a way, imagine had the Jedi "rebellion" succeeded in ROTS and the Jedi Council/Junta ran the galaxy. "For a safe and secure...society!"

    Like the Galactic Empire, establish an active presence and maintain the peace/order in the far reaches of the Outer Rim (unlike the corrupt apathetic Republic). Do the same as the Empire, but with Jedi oversight and noble intentions.

    Imagine,

    "Today is the end of the Republic. The end of corruption. In the name of the Galactic Senate, and in the name of the Force, we, the Jedi Order of old, hereby assume control of the galactic government. We will end the evils of the past, purge the corruption that has plagued us for so long, end the apathy to the plight of galactic citizens. Under our enlightened leadership, the Grand Army will ensure that justice prevails across our great galaxy. The Jedi Council will stand for a civilised age, for a galaxy free of greed, for a galaxy that gives favour to all. Today the Republic will be reorganised into the Second Republic. For a safe...and secure society! May the Force be with us all. There is no anger, there is only serenity. We are going to go on, we will thrive. Today we celebrate Jedi Day! For the Republic!"

    - First speech inaugurating the Second Republic by Master Windu, following the arrest/execution of Chancellor Palpatine, the last leader of the Old Republic as well as the removal of thousands of Senators. Master Yoda was appointed Supreme President shortly after in a ceremony broadcast live on the Holonet. This day would come to be known as "Jedi Day."
    Subsequent to the "Republic" spreading out into the Outer Rim, and much like the Empire we see in the films, reigning in the Hutts etc, President Yoda becomes the ceremonial Galactic Emperor declaring the first Galactic Empire into creation. Citizens of worlds from Coruscant, to Alderaan, to Naboo, to Ryloth, to Tatooine to Nar Shada rejoice.

    The galaxy clearly is shown to need guidance by principled leaders, the spiritual leadership of the Light Side of the Force, and action. Order. Peace. The rule of law. And zero tolerance for apathy or corruption. As Count Dooku said in a deleted scene, "the Republic cannot be fixed milady. It's time to start over." Master Windu would walk into the Senate where corrupt bureaucrats were partying and tell them, "This party's over."

    Remember this:
    "There is no civility, only politics. The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good... If I may say so, Your Majesty, the Chancellor has little real power... The bureaucrats are in charge now."

    — Senator Palpatine, The Phantom Menace
    Long live the Emperor! Long live the Jedi! Long live the Galaxy!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  6. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    @crazyewok
    I really don't think the saga is pointing to the Empire being the best form of government...

    The Empire was also big, bloated, and corrupt.

    An Emperor who is supreme commander of a powerful military could simply ignore any Senate that decides to recall that Emperor... and could also establish their will on the planets

    @DarthTalonx
    As for the Jedi being enlightened rulers due to their "noble intentions"... "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." This is the line of thought that turned Dooku to the dark side, that turned Jacen Solo to the dark side in the old EU, and we see the temptations of Roan Fel in the old EU as well.

    Also, the galaxy would not rejoice, their PR with the galaxy was worse than Palpatine's and the Senate's. There would be immediate rebellion.


    Even if you have a good absolute monarch... there's always the chance that they could be corrupted, or when they die they'd be replaced by someone worse, and then there's no one in the system to check those worse impulses without resorting to a coup or war. Besides, no human is 100% morally pure either.

    An empire with an absolute monarch/dictator is just not sustainable.

    At the end of the day, evil is about imposing your will on others. And an empire with an absolute monarch is all about imposing your will on others. Good is about working in harmony.

    So what do you think would be better, and how would it be more sustainable?
     
    Snafu55 likes this.
  7. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Haha I knew you'd use that quote! Well put!

    The only thing is I must admit despite his Sith Lord agenda, Palpatine had a point with the Republic. Look at Tatooine. Look at the Senate. Look at Naboo. In that sense, no wonder he received thunderous applause.

    As for the Jedi Council, it comes down to this. Who would you trust to govern and do what's right, and protect you. The corrupt bureaucrats, or the Jedi Knights, led by the likes of Yoda and Windu, Secura, Obi Wan etc?

    In the movies, their PR goes literally and proverbially out of the window owing to Anakin's betrayal. The Jedi arrest attempt is (correctly) portrayed as a Jedi coup/rebellion. However, without Palpatine around, it is possible the Jedi could themselves have achieved not only a coup, but a PR coup, had they succeeded. Immediate rebellion would be of little consequence. The Chancellor was effectively the only one who outranked them. Both parties (the Supreme Chancellor and The Jedi Order) were all that stood between either gaining control. The Chancellor ranked higher than the Jedi when it came to the Grand Army, thus Order 66 is obeyed and carried out. But if no one is around to give it, then the Jedi could in theory easily impose their will upon the galactic populace, with the Army.

    Given they are also have the collective wisdom of the Jedi Council, are Force users with essentially mythical magical powers, and have command of a galactic military, it is virtually the same as Palpatine in terms of control, save for a Council versus one individual.

    I think the point is WHO is at the top, be it a Republic, Kingdom, Empire, etc (though I believe the galaxy needed a strong centralised orderly leadership that actually cared to get things done). Anakin and Padme have the same moral debate on Naboo, and Anakin (a citizen who struggled to survive in the abandoned Outer Rim) correctly points out that the leaders need to not only discuss and debate, but decide and do.

    I believe a Luke/Leia/Han or Vader/Luke combination (if they had teamed to rule the galaxy as Father and Son) is better than Palpatine or indeed Mothma and other opportunists in the Rebellion. A Palpatine and Jedi combo would be glorious. A Jedi Council led Republic, whether it be for a "temporary transition" that becomes permanent, or an explicitly stated overthrow of the Republic Senate, is surely preferable given the Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice and nobler than the Sith, or corrupt bureaucrats.

    Good is a point of view.

    I think collective rule by consensus is naturally desired. However, action is required. The law has to be enforced by the Jedi and the Army, no matter what. No debates in the Senate. Perhaps a unifying leader ceremonially would be a good thing. Either way, the Jedi should have a greater role in affairs. So a system closer to the Empire, than the Republic it evolved from.

    Not the Empire, or Republic of old. But the Empire of new:

    "With our combined strength, we will end destructive conflicts in the galaxy. I will free the slaves. We will rule and bring order to the galaxy.

    This is your last chance Jabba. FREE US, OR DIE.

    There's been a Rebellion. Not to worry, the situation is under control.

    And the Hutt, Gangster, Criminal and Corrupt Rebellions have been foiled. To counter any resurgent threats of the dark side, as my first act with executive authority, I shall create a grand network of Jedi Temples and outposts...

    I love democracy. I love the Republic. Long live the Jedi!
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Smaller Republics, Federations, Empires, etc.
    Or set something up like what happened after God Emperor of Dune.
     
  9. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    The way things seem to be going so far, it seems they are pointing towards simply a revised version of the Galactic Republic, rather than something radically different. Now the Jedi Order however; that I do see as something that's evolving into a completely different type of philosophy.
     
  10. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I agree. It shows the weaknesses of the Old Republic.
    The New Republic tried to fix many of them, but had its own problems too, and I wrote down both in my OP.
    But those could still be fixed.

    It's kind of like if Gandalf or Galadriel took the One Ring in the Lord of the Rings... the Jedi could still be corrupted. And if not corrupted, they'll eventually die, and their successors might be more corrupt. In a democracy, you can remove someone once they've gone bad, either at the next election, or some kind of impeachment/recall/vote of no confidence.

    As I said
    "At the end of the day, evil is about imposing your will on others. And an empire with an absolute monarch is all about imposing your will on others. Good is about working in harmony."


    They can still have a democracy, and be active in enforcing the law. If the Senate just had more, and more active, peacekeepers to address all the injustices in the galaxy, then they wouldn't need to debate sending them, their Commander would just go and uphold the rule of law and protect their rights, whether it's freeing slaves on Tatooine or forcing the Trade Federation out of Naboo. No need for the Senate to debate the enforcement of laws they had long passed.

    Don't you think that some debates are good? Not everyone agrees on everything, so to prevent a minority from taking advantage of everyone else, or even to stop a pure-hearted but utterly misguided leader, debate is necessary. I agree when the case is clear, like Tatooine and Naboo, no debate is needed, the Commander of the Peacekeepers should already be on their way. But debate is still needed for other things. The Jedi Council and Imperial Council had debates too.
     
  11. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I feel like both need to evolve.

    Whilst perhaps even a Jedi can be corrupted, the Republic had failed. If the Senate was full of bureaucrats and the corrupt, then what hope did the ordinary citizen have for a civilised way of life. It became clear that by the time of TPM, as Padme states:

    It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions. I pray you will bring compassion and sanity back to the Senate.

    So only a group of people can change that. Perhaps the group to do that must be the Jedi themselves. Or the likes of a Padme, a Windu, a Leia, a Luke. Even a Han.

    Expecting the same old people like Mothma to change things, or the corrupt and the galaxy will just be in the same mess. Palpatine was evil, but his plan was brilliant.

    To achieve a more perfect form of government is the power none has achieved, but if we work together...I know we can discover the secret.
    - Palpatine speaking to Master Yoda

    I believe some ceremonial head, like an Emperor and an Empress would work wonders. As would a more active Jedi Order, with a certain degree of power. At the very least, the Jedi should have taken over the Republic as they fully well intended to do in ROTS, even if it was to be temporary.

    I believe a galactic army with Jedi oversight (to assist them in keeping the peace) is necessary, and like the Empire, one that establishes a presence across the galaxy and does not leave planets like Tatooine to the whims and fancies of the "vile" Jabba etc (as described in ROTJ and slavery demonstrated in TPM).

    As for day to day running, I believe the average citizen would have different views descending on where they stood in the galaxy. Some's lives may not have changed, others may have even improved under the Empire. E.g. the lawless Outer Rim. Of course, you can't permit absolute power without any checks. The point being that you need to be a form of Galactic Alliance/Empire versus a loose collection of planets spanning a galaxy with no executive to guide them. The Senate is clearly incapable of managing things. You also need a Jedi Order with powers to remove the corrupt and punish them severely. But will the so called principled people permit that? Or would that be classed as "Jedi interference?"

    There needs to be a point where the Senate's approval and debate is not required until a certain point is reached. And where blatant contravention of the galaxy's laws is dealt with by an independent arm, not the Senate or the Courts which had become totally corrupted. Naboo should never have got to that point where a blockade was imposed in the first place.

    May the Force guide the galaxy to the future it deserves.
     
  12. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Democracy is best, but the galactic government should limit itself to matters of galactic importance - a Galactic Alliance - whose purpose is to facilitate the interaction and exchanges between member states, ensure the freedoms of all beings, the protection of all lifeforms, provide direction on galactic issues, stewardship over galactic resources, and maintain galactic security.

    The Galactic Alliance will have no formal relationship with the Jedi Order, but guidance or assistance may be requested from one to another from time to time.

    Any member world (assuming they meet certain requirements) can join the Galactic Alliance and have representation in the Senate, organizations such as the Trade Federation or Commerce Guild are not eligible. Senators can be elected, appointed, or otherwise selected based on the customs of their represented worlds. Planets may choose to align themselves together and appoint a single representative. In this way, the Hapes Consortium or the Corporate Sector would be represented as a whole by a single Senator. However, a single senator must not represent more than 1% of the Galactic Alliance planets or population. Votes in the senate shall be calculated in two ways. One with each senator receiving one vote for every planet they represent, and another where each senator receives one vote for every one billion people that they represent. Both counts must concur for resolution on an issue.

    Every term a new Chief of State will be appointed by senate vote. The Galactic Alliance ministries will be run by civil servants, each ministry will be headed by a civil servant who has the knowledge and capability to effectively run their portfolio. A civil servant shall only be removed by the Chief of State for 'just cause' and not political expediency. Each ministry will have a senate oversight committee.

    The Galactic Alliance will maintain a military force equivalent or greater to the force represented by the two strongest armed forces of members. The Galactic Alliance Defense Forces will no longer be tasked with maintaining peace and security throughout the galaxy, but to act as a reaction force where required.
     
    DarthTalonx and Ghost like this.
  13. crazyewok

    crazyewok Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2017

    A constitutional monarchy has worked very well for Britain. Its probably one of the most stable forms of government that has never gone to extremes.

    The emperor would be tempered by the grand admirals that would be selected via the senate (or parliament). A apparatus like the IBS could be set up that serves the state rather than the emperor or parliament that would forceful remove any rogue emperor with likely the help of Grand admirals. And a constitution would limited the interference if the emperor and parliament in micromanaging planets.
     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    @crazyewok
    What you're describing isn't the UK, though. The monarch there has been pretty much powerless for centuries, and just a figurehead. If the monarchy was abolished back in 1700, the end result wouldn't be that different. Even the American Revolution was more about their issues with Parliament, they just used the King as an already-outdated symbol to revolt against.

    What stops these Grand Admirals from conspiring to put one of themselves on the throne, simply claiming that the Emperor wasn't doing his duty but really just for a power grab? Or the Emperor and Senate from conspiring to purge the Grand Admirals, replacing them with their own puppets?
    When there is such great potential for power to be seized, there will be power struggles. And without a democratic check, the vast majority will be ignored as a non-factor in the power struggles of the rich and powerful for greater riches and greater power. And instead of power struggles at the ballot box, it will be power struggles in the form of never-ending civil wars.
     
  15. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I foresee you will become a great galactic constitution maker.

    So no Jedi Council led Republic with their command of the Grand Army to enforce their will and maintain order as guardians of peace and justice?

    In addition, how to ensure like the Empire a presence is established galactic wide versus the apathy of the Old Republic, and to fight corruption?

    Could the Galactic Alliance have a ceremonial Emperor/Empress?

    Would the likes of the vile Jabba and plight of Tatooine in TPM be relegated to the dustbin of history of the Old Republic in the new Galactic Alliance? Would be nice to see a Galactic Alliance in sequels.
     
    JABoomer likes this.
  16. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    The rules of entrance into the Galactic Alliance - such as the freedoms of all beings, the protection of all lifeforms, and conservation of galactic resources - would mean that slavery, barbarism, and the careless destruction of nature would not be permitted on member worlds. The independent governing of members worlds would also be guaranteed, meaning that the Galactic Alliance will not interfere with planetary or sector (Hapan, Corporate, etc.) politics. Also that aggression towards a member state will not be permitted (by either another member world or a foreign enemy). Each member is permitted a certain leeway in terms of their own customs mind you .. dealt with on a case-by-case basis by the Department of Domestic Affairs (within the Ministry of State).

    How do you entice planets to join this union? The promise of free trade, easy travel between member planets, shared peace and security, and use of galactic resources like hyper-space maps and communication networks such as the HoloNet are hopefully enough of a benefit for them to join, pay the required taxes necessary to keep the government bureaucracy turning, and forgoing whatever illegal, immoral, and irrational behaviors they currently practice.

    I would see no need for a ceremonial position within the Galactic Alliance. But my personnel belief is that they are a waste of government resources with little value. They can unite a people, but with such varied members, I do not think this has practical value on the galactic scale.

    After typing that it sure seems like I'm trying to mold the New Republic into Star Trek's Federation. Probably naive in it's conception (where everyone understands playing by the rules has benefits), but this is how I see it working best.
     
    DarthTalonx likes this.
  17. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Haha a noble Alliance! Yes I see your point about the Federation from Star Trek which does appear to be a utopia and I hope we get to that one day if not one day soon. I have read some hilarious questions though as to whether StarFleet essentially is a military junta that exerts control over everything and makes it all work. I think to realise the ideal of the Federation, it came to be out of factors such as devastation/post war environment, and "First Contact" with other species, and not realising you were alone. If you could replicate that onto the Star Wars galaxy, then one would hope post the Galactic Civil War, that a "more perfect Empire" would be formed.

    That is to say a Galactic Alliance with equality for all lifeforms and smooth non corrupt governance. Clearly a return to the ways of the Old Republic is ill advised and pointless. Given this galaxy has the Jedi/concept of the Force, I feel like they need to be involved though. If only to "guide" the citizens. The most serious constitutional clauses would need to deal with freedom for citizens, but also freedom to be free of corruption and bureaucracy, and not to be left in the lurches just because you live in an Outer Rim world. For instance Tatooine is clearly abandoned by the "Republic" in TPM.

    I think the point of a ceremonial figure in the Galactic Alliance would be because of that very diverse nature of the galaxy. Lest politics and politicisation of the machinery of government, or else regional/sectoral interests overwhelm its perception. Having a unifying figure, even if that be the Jedi Order itself, would help promote the concept of Galactic citizens first and foremost. Or Alliance citizens.

    I hope the Alliance has a StarFleet of Star Destroyers and also exploration/scientific vessels also. Yes I think it is almost like a Federation, but replicated on a massive scale (I believe the extent we see by the time of TNG is a great part of one quadrant of a galaxy, of which the Federation is one power) of an entire galaxy.
     
    JABoomer likes this.
  18. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    So parts of the galaxy thrived under the Republic, but certainty we see that towards it's downfall, it was not really an effective government. The galaxy has seen an authoritative Empire, which again, wasn't great for everyone. In Legends we see the galaxy attempting to recreate the Republic after Endor, but crises after crises make it clear that it's not going to work. They got closer to what I envision with the Galactic Alliance after the Vong war, but it was still flawed. No collective government is going to work, but an alliance of regional governments mandating things on a galactic scale could, in my opinion.

    With regard to the Jedi Order, we have seen at the end of the Old Republic and at times post-Endor, that having the Jedi as an integral part of the government has many drawbacks. Having what most citizens view as a religious sect of wizards, who serve a mystical power, form a police force is not helpful when the objectives of the Jedi Order can in some cases be different from the government. I think keeping the Galactic Alliance separate from the Jedi Order is best and provides the most flexibility for both organizations. The Jedi are free to help people without direct government oversight, and the Galactic Alliance can call on them for specific insight, guidance, and assistance as needed. In fact the Jedi Order being affiliated with a government is counter-intuitive to their assumed goal of helping all living things.

    I think the prosperity of living on a planet represented in the Galactic Alliance would be enough of a incentive to the populace that a figurehead that they can point to for acclaim or blame isn't needed. Free trade, travel, etc. should make the galaxy smaller and let the people interact and integrate with each other more.

    I see the Galactic Alliance having both a Defense Force and a Starfleet. The Starfleet would have exploratory and science vessels. Members within the Galactic Alliance would be encouraged to have their own planetary defense forces. No Defense Force garrisons or star-fighter squadrons will be permanently based on member worlds.

    If a member of a foreign government were to ask for assistance to overthrow a government who did not uphold the same charter of freedoms as the Galactic Alliance, then a Senate vote would have to be held in order for the Defense Force to be sent to "liberate" the world(s) and begin their entrance into the Galactic Alliance.
     
    DarthTalonx likes this.
  19. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Nice comparison with the Dune saga. I haven't read the books in many years, and have forgotten almost everything after God Emperor. I remember that Leto II wasn't presented as really evil at all, and at least managed to keep peace, although through tyranny, for over 3000 years. I wonder how much Lucas was influenced by the Dune books. Clearly much of Tatooine is based on Arrakis. But how about the later books? Is there any source that says if they somehow affected the SW saga as it was told after the OT?
     
    DarthTalonx and Force Smuggler like this.
  20. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I feel that the galaxy needs debate yes. But less debate, stall and discuss, and appoint committees and plush perks for those in the capital, and more decide and do.

    I do feel like the noble Jedi are the only hope though. I'd much rather trust Master Yoda and Master Windu ruling with the Grand Army than the likes of Mothma. I would also trust Princess Leia, Han and Master Luke Skywalker also.

    What would happen if the corrupt Senate wanted to rid itself of these Jedi Knights who weren't part of the Republic, but interfering with their corrupt activities, by arresting, or "acting" to help the plight of those who needed help? E.g. if the Jedi actively detained, or "dealt with" pirates, slavers, greedy politicians, and were outside the jurisdiction of the Republic/Alliance, would the Jedi not find themselves declared a foreign enemy?

    Would it not be better to have an Alliance that has a non corrupt, lean bureaucracy which is apolitical, and not tied to the Senate in any shape or form. That is galaxy spanning, and centralised in the sense of its loyalty being to the Galactic Alliance versus individual worlds. But comprising of the best of all the worlds. Akin to the Federation I suppose in Star Trek.

    As for leadership, I suppose have a Senate, but have an Executive Council. I do believe that the Jedi should form part of the StarFleet Security Council and have a role in affairs, if only to be part and parcel of keeping the peace.

    The Alliance StarFleet will have its chain of command and report to not one Chancellor, but a Federation Council, comprising of members of the Senate, of which one could be named as Chair, and the Executive Head. The Head of State of the Alliance, could be either a popularly elected President, by direct popular vote with ceremonial powers, and rotated amongst member species by a quota system. Or else, have a ceremonial monarchy with a Galactic Emperor, and Empress, above petty politics, and the true face of the Alliance.

    The Alliance would have a rules system, where the Council must act within a set timeframe of say 1 month, or else the Jedi Council will decide upon appropriate action within 2 days. Or else an appointed committee must report within 1 month directly to the Galactic Emperor, who will make an executive decision, if the Chair has not made one on a crisis such as Naboo. However, the local bureaucrats and Alliance Star Fleet's presence across the galaxy, would prevent local armies from threatening member worlds, circumventing their authority.

    The point is to avoid a situation where Naboo can even happen. A situation where piracy, or slavers may roam the galaxy unhindered. And to avoid Tatooine, which is abandoned. Tatooine under the proposed Alliance would have a firmly established StarFleet presence with a space dock in orbit, as well as Galactic Troopers having outposts in Mos Eisley, and perhaps Security droids patrolling for Hutt criminals or bandit Tuskens in the deserts. Citizens would be able to seek the help of Alliance Troopers to protect them if required.

    The courts would be run by efficient droids, and the lean bureaucracy of the Alliance. Push come to shove, the StarFleet itself would hold fair trials, to be held within a certain timeframe, and not endlessly delayed. All of this would involve very few politicians. But then that's what Mothma and company are dead against. They want to return to the old ways. What we need is an Empire, that works, in the sense that everyone is equal, and you have a policed galaxy which is just. And makes progress.
     
    JABoomer likes this.
  21. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    My government cabinet would look like:

    -Chief of State
    --Deputy Chief of State
    ---Prime Minister
    ----Minister of State
    -----Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs
    -----Secretary of State for Domestic Affairs
    ----Minister of Defense
    -----Secretary of the Navy
    -----Secretary of the Army
    -----Secretary of Star-fighter Command
    ----Minister of Security
    -----Secretary of Intelligence
    -----Secretary of Security
    -----Secretary of Customs & Border Patrol
    ----Minister of the Economy
    -----Secretary of Finance
    -----Secretary of Commerce
    -----Secretary of Trade
    ----Minister of the Public
    -----Secretary of Justice and Rights
    -----Secretary of Health
    -----Secretary of Immigration
    ----Minister of Domestic Affairs
    -----Secretary of Industry & Labour
    -----Secretary of Infrastructure
    -----Secretary of Contracts and Procurement
    ----Minster of Resources
    -----Secretary of Galactic Resources
    -----Secretary of Energy
    -----Secretary of Science and Exploration Starfleet

    So the Security Council would be: Chief of State, Deputy Chief of State, Prime Minister, President of the Senate, Minister of State, Minister of Defense, Minister of Security, Chief of the Defense Force.
     
  22. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Any new thoughts?

    1. What are some ways we could get something fundamentally different?

    2. If just going with a "Newer Republic," then how can it have a more powerful and widespread military and civilian executive/bureaucratic government without it becoming corrupt or a new Empire?

    3. And what can be done about about the arms dealer, who profit from selling weapons of war?
     
  23. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Are there any other forms of government that would make sense for the GFFA besides Republic/Confederacy/Empire?
     
  24. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    A government where funny women come out of the water, brandishing swords.