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ST What does the ST add to the Saga? What is its story purpose?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Apart from the obvious, that TCWC was able to explore more material over 7 seasons, the PT itself focused more on pivotal moments within Anakin's story. Therefore, the 'condensed' version of Anakin in the PT (IMHO), is more true to how a good person could be so utterly consumed by the darkside. As much as I like TCWC (and Anakin in it), there's a bit of a disconnect in how he's portrayed in the cartoon (generally speaking) and how the Jedi perceive him in ROTS. Anakin in TCWC doesn't quite seem the man who wood murder Dooku, cut of Mace's arm, choke his wife and attempt to kill his mentor... There's certainly moments within TCWC that nail the darker side of Anakin, but by and large (IMHO), he's played more like a generic hero.

    But in relation to the ST, I still don't believe there's ample consideration into what would make Ben Solo go dark, and what would bring him back... it all kind of just happens. His redemption is so straight forward, it begs the question as to why he would have turned in the first place. There was no narrative imperative to either his fall or his rise back to the light...
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  2. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Everyone, to EHT you listen:
    Also, please remember that PT vs OT vs ST vs Anthology vs TCW vs Ewok Adventures debates are not allowed here.
    If you want to discuss the PT or TCW at length, there are other forums for that. If you want to talk about the PT in here, it needs to be in relation to the ST, without it becoming a comparison in quality or enjoyment of the two.
     
  3. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I gotta say I miss this sort of "what was changed" talk with the Sequel Trilogy. I doubt those films will be changed at all in the future. For some that will be a good thing. The ST is the movies we got and those films are really unlikely to change in the future.

    I believe you HevyDevy. It'd be great to share this further and that's where additional proof is needed. I'd love a chance to see Ep2 and Ep3 in 3D.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
    HevyDevy likes this.
  4. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    There’s lots of little changes... as per above conversation with HevyDevy, the additional line of dialogue from Dooku in the ROTS duel.
     
  5. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    You mean in a video game? Did the movie have that line in it?

    Anyway aren't we supposed to be talking about the ST. TCF is going to lock this thread down with so much prequel talk.
     
  6. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    There are some rumors that Lucas Film might possibly erase the ST out of canon, and would rebrand them as Legends that take place outside of the official canon universe. It's being reported by some prominent youtube critics who have leaked a number of things in the past and have proven sources inside Disney and Lucas Film. Some sites have even reported on this, but the information itself is being linked back to the youtube critics. Back in May there was some leaked information about division within Lucas Film between Iger and Kennedy, that apparently Iger and Chapek were not happy with the direction Lucas Film had taken under Kennedy, both creatively and financially, and that there was a growing rift between them. There was reportedly a high level emergency meeting that took place among Disney executives to discuss the future of Star Wars, after Kennedy was not authorized to make certain announcements at that time about upcoming projects but did anyway. It has also been reported that Favreau was quickly winning favor to take over the franchise, who had also expressed disdain for TLJ and how the ST ultimately turned out. With George Lucas even echoing similar sentiments to people close to him. And that apparently Lucas directly assisted in the production of The Mandalorian, while Kennedy was not allowed to be on set. There's been a real tit for tat going on in Lucas Film that I was following closely at the time but hadn't caught up with until recently. And now, supposedly there are some hints at the possibility that the ST can be erased from canon. That there is a growing sentiment to want to bring back the primary fan base who seem to have walked away from SW altogether after the release of TROS. And that the closer we get to the end of Kennedy's contract, the less likely it seems that it will be renewed. Thus allowing certain changes to be fairly imminent, as well as efforts going forward to right the ship.

    Has anybody else been following this? What do you make of it?
     
    AusStig likes this.
  7. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  8. EHT

    EHT Anthology Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Exactly.

    Yes, we've seen this whole "erase the ST from canon via the 'World Between Worlds' concept" thing, and it hasn't received much belief as to its accuracy.
     
  9. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    No reason to laugh at it. I just asked if anybody had been following it and what they thought about it.
     
  10. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I followed it and it's BS. It's a clickbait. Invent a rumor that doesn't have any business common sense whatsoever and get huge following (by YT standards of course) because it's something that this particular YT target audience wants to hear. And wanting to hear something =/= real. The only case where something like this happened was Halloween franchise, where they de-canonized a bunch of mostly direct-to-video sequels because most people didn't watch those bad movies anyway. They kept only first 2 in canon and restarted the franchise. With a movie that was pretty bad too. There's absolutely no way that Disney is going to cut off a trilogy that was seen by so many people and made them billions. Most they'll do is not continue to use ST characters outside of niche ancillary sources which is a sound decision. The trilogy is over, the characters got their conclusions, move on to new characters, eras, etc. That's what's gonna happen.
     
  11. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
  12. chris hayes

    chris hayes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2012
    To scrap the ST form cannon is the biggest BS I've heard in a long time and it's probably driven by the people who wanted TLJ to be stripped from cannon and remade.
     
  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Sounds like bs but I am sick of never knowing if internet informants are making stuff up.

    I still am not sure if TROS was the actual JJ cut or if it, as rumoured, got hijacked by Disney.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  14. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    TROS (theatrical cut) is the only JJ cut. It's exactly what SW movie looks like if written by JJ and Terrio and directed by JJ. Checks all the boxes of JJisms and Terrioisms.

    The rumor that tried to pin all the blame on Iger (including writing the They Fly Now gag, now that's a defamation!) is just some fan's cope that got traction among former "JJ will fix it" crowd. There's no other JJ Cut but TROS theatrical cut.

    Fans simply have to accept that franchises will have some good movies and some bad movies and if they find ST to be bad overall or 2/3 or 1/3 or whatever %, there's nothing they can do about it. It's canon that they can simply ignore if they want but inventing convoluted scenarios and passing them as rumors and leaks won't change the reality. Movies are canon and will stay that way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  15. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Disney is not going to hold a press conference and declare that the ST did never really happen. On the other hand if they would sneakily take on more of a "canon shmannon" approach in the future or do an animated "what if" series with alternative events or something like this, those internet rumours would still be looked as "true" -from a certain point of view.

    That's the thing about "a source of a source heard from a source that so-and-so might be considered", it's vague enough that it blanket covers everything and nothing.
     
    AusStig, Def Trooper, 2Cleva and 6 others like this.
  16. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I agree, it's always hard to tell. Many of them do seem to have insider sources that they get their information from. At the same time, it's often click baity stuff that seems too good to be true.

    Yea, it's always third and even fourth hand sources. I don't see how they could be outright lies. But at what point is that alleged source not an actual source?

    --

    Either way, this whole thing has been going on for a little while now. And has been reported by some of the more reputable critics out there. While I don't jump to 100% believing everything, I don't think it should be outright dismissed entirely either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  17. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Please name those reputable critics so we can judge their reputation.
     
  18. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Quick list of reputable YouTubers talking about this:

    DoomCock

    UnMakingStarWars

    Tolin Crevorrow

    ReCast the ReCast Han Solo PodCast

    Totally American Star Wars News Site not doing anything with Bots 2020 Election

    Leonard Maltin
     
    MotivateR5D4 likes this.
  19. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I would add Midnight's Edge to it as well. Nerdrotic and Geeks and Gamers are pretty too.

    Again though, I was just seeing what others thought of it. Nobody needs to judge anyone else's reputation, and that certainly isn't for the posters here to decide anyhow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  20. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Nonsense. Grab your torches and pitchforks!
     
    godisawesome and MotivateR5D4 like this.
  21. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Midnight’s Edge only good content is when they breakdown something after the fact. Most of the rest is pure rumour BS you can see how well they did on Star Trek Rumors.

    As @Alliyah Skywalker has said there may be some rumblings about LFL basically opening back up the canon and stories and those are being reported as LFL wiping out the ST when it could be a Star Wars What if séries as they are doing Marvel What if. There is the whole Sword if the Jedi and the existing EU they could revive. There is a possibility that they decide to take all of the TV stuff as it’s own universe and disconnect it from the ST. We don’t really know what they will do in the long term.

    I do think that the 9 part films will remain boxed as the Skywalker Saga now if they pursue another direction or if say they revive legends or a what if idea proves more popular than the ST who knows what they will decide to do but I don’t think the idea of new lines of Star Wars coming out unrelated to the ST is completely unfounded it does fell like the whole wiping the ST from canon is taking it a bit far.
     
  22. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I think there is a lot resting on whether or not Kathleen Kennedy's contract gets renewed, which it likely won't. At that point, I think anything is fair game. I could see the ST being relegated to a less serious side of SW, where they continue to produce content in that manner, almost in a young adult sense (and I don't mean that offensively). While re-routing the saga to a more serious tone. I don't think they would altogether just cancel the ST. But there is a lot to be said for wanting the old fan base to come back to SW. While the ST made money, the drastic drop off in revenue from one film to the next has to be something they want to amend. And I think they could only do so by making a clear and noticeable effort to bring back SW to what it once was. To think that there isn't anybody in Lucas Film who doesn't think this way, or that there is no possibility for that kind of person to take the helm, is not giving them enough credit. There has to be some substance to the reports of division within Lucas Film. If you think about it, what would create the biggest hype, an announcement of the cancellation of the ST, or an announcement of the continuation of the ST? The answer to that is clear, and there's got to be somebody trying to move forward with that. Ultimately whatever comes from that remains to be seen, but all we are is discussing rumors at this point anyhow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  23. Hernalt

    Hernalt Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    This is content that is generated when the content that was the result of the ST has been thoroughly digested and it has become clear that it was not a feast. The tail of youtube is not going to wag the dog of shareholders. Tales in other franchises await. This one's a mess in the microwave. Not your mess, not your microwave. You can walk away. The next movie in 2025? 2024? could be worth seeing in theatre. It'll be nice to hear the fanfare.
     
  24. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Just take a little extra time to assess the validity of the sources you’re citing. It you do, you’ll find that these cats are full of ****.
     
    Riv_Shiel and TCF-1138 like this.
  25. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I mean, like I said, I agree that you shouldn't believe everything they say with absolute certainty. But dismissing them entirely as being completely full of **** isn't a fair assessment either. That seems as much of a knee jerk to what they say as anything else.