ST What does the ST add to the Saga? What is its story purpose?

I don't think it developed all its characters much, if at all for some of them. I think Leia didn't get a lot of development. I think Rey's development wasn't very strong. I think Finn's wasn't much different than the movie before it had. I think Holdo didn't get much development. I think Snoke didn't. I think Kylo didn't get a lot. I think Rose didn't get a lot.
I don't have much to say in regards to that.
I don't think it tried to do much new, in story or much of characters.
Why is it an abomination to not use a character that they don't want to use, if the reason is them not wanting to use the character?
I think some Finn fans may disagree with that perception. Personally I don't necessarily view it that way myself for both characters.

 

I'm not sure Rose, as portrayed in TLJ, was a character that demanded more screen time/development in TROS. I actually think that's on Johnson and not Abrams. Sure, Abrams could have developed Rose, to counter the negative response to her in TROS... but I'm not sure what that would have achieved, other than by standing by the actor (which is a valid enough reason).

 

I thought the only real moment of poor focus in TROS was the Exegol stadium.
I legitimately didn't realise at first that it was a large mass of beings really far away.

Visuals were generally pretty good as well.

 

Regarding them not wanting to use the character....I take it you mean Rose.....I find it a staggering coincidence that the one character they chose not to use was the one toxics on the internet trolled horribly, and many fans made no secret of their dislike of her.

 

I don't know if I'd say that. I think, out of any of the more mainline characters, the one that had a more limited potential, was Rose. It's not that I don't think something can't be done. But in a way that would fit the story they wanted to tell, with the characters they wanted to use and how they wanted to use them, I think it's not impossible that they may have thought that there's not much there. And that's if they even wanted to use her.

 

It's a short list. Of the new characters that first appeared in TLJ, I can only think of Rose who returned for TROS. All other characters got dropped or died didn't they e.g. DJ and Holdo?

 

It's still very odd that a major character was reduced to one line.

TLJ got a lot of hate, and it's obvious watching TROS that the film in part tried to undo some of TLJ's creative decisions.
The #not my Luke campaign.....Luke is shown throwing away Anakin's lightsabre in TLJ. In TROS he does a complete about turn telling Rey that you don't treat a Jedi's weapon like that.
A lot of people didn't like Holdo. They made a point of ridiculing her 'sacrifice'. People wanted Rey to be a Skywalker. So they made her an honorary one. Rose was disliked. Out she goes as a major character.

The irony is...they still hated TROS.

 

I don't think TROS's attempt to lessen the burn felt from TLJ was the only thing people disliked about it, but yeah, the attempts probably came off as either too contrived or too late for many. And some directions just seemed to add insult to injury (I still think it's kind of trollish that they named the film "The Rise of Skywalker").

But TROS still had its own divisive ideas (bringing back Palpatine, Snoke being a clone, Reylo kiss, end of the Skywalkers...)

 

The treatment as they pertain to a trilogy, not a single film. So what we got was not inherently from Lucas. So say Rian based The Last Jedi on the entirety of the treatments, what would you think then? We do know for certain that the initial intro to Luke has similarities between pre Disney and TLJ. Theres a beginning, middle, and end to Luke Skywalker as a character, which was said by Hamill to run through 3 films. I think it's likely that is what happened.

 

Then, um, uh...TLJ looks...flat? And artificially lit? And...overly filtered somehow? I don’t know how to describe in a few words what I mean. Which is why I require paragraph after paragraph, and use the wrong terminology. Help me!

 

It's not like Johnson treated Rose well, considering her awful hair, terrible costume, and some of her actions. KMT is adorable and, like everyone in this trilogy with the exception of a few moments of Carrie in TLJ in the blue dress, it looks like they were costumed by someone who absolutely hated them and then shot through a mud puddle splattered lens. Why does Luke as a Force ghost look faker than what they did with Alec Guinness in ROTJ?

It looks like it's shot for TV, but average TV (hell, Miami Vice and Stingray look better and they're from the 80s. Let alone something like The X-Files at its best). I guess it's digital processing that makes things look so dull and dark.

 

That is very helpful to see those comparison shots side by side... and I certainly see that demonstrated in the films. Saying that. I still prefer the overall look and aesthetic of TLJ to TFA.

 

Thank you for the comparison shots.

How much of what we're complaining about is due to the fact that so much is green screen anymore? I mean, yeah, blah blah practical effects but...

 

It's funny, but although I and a lot of reylos loved the kiss, it didn't make up for killing off Ben Solo. I would happily have preferred an ambiguous ending regarding Rey and Ben and satisfied my Reylo love with fanfiction, rather than the ending we got.
Everything else I agree with.....clone Snoke - daft. Clone Palps - even dafter.
Worst of all.....end of the Skywalkers and their replacement with Palpatine's granddaughter. It would still have hurt, but making Rey a Palpatine was insult to injury.

I often wonder what George Lucas thinks in private. Disney erased his legacy family in favour of the descendant of the big bad, who he likened to Satan.
Be very careful who you sell your creations to, guys!

 

Lucas on TFA - There is nothing new.
Lucas on TLJ (rumoured) - It is soulless.

I can only imagine he doesn't like TROS either
I enjoy the films but you can hardly blame him when things seemingly fell apart without his (or any) overarching vision.

 

I think killing off Kylo was actually one of the few good decisions they made regarding characters. Letting him live would've been not only totally unwarranted but more "fan servicey" than killing him off, IMO. The only bad thing I see about it is the end of the Skywalker bloodline. Instead we get Rey Skyfaker.

 

I get what you're saying. And I agree. It's like they took the color palette and overall contrast and turned it way down, just to create some sense of "dramatic moodiness" or something. @PendragonM mentioned here it was like it was filmed for TV. That's spot on-it's all dark images and whatnot, like some serious HBO or original Prime Video drama series. TROS by contrast is like, exactly the opposite-which I find funny! (although I enjoyed the colorfulness of TROS). In terms of contrast and cinematography (not story) IMO TLJ is the darkest of all the SW films.

 

Killing him off was also fan service, to those who hated him.
JJ apparently said his character was always meant to die, if this is the case.....why not make Rey a Skywalker?
Ultimately, Abrams intent was to erase the Skywalkers and Solos. THAT was the entire purpose of the ST.

But, if they always wanted Rey to be the descendant of someone important.....why choose Intergalactic Lucifer? Why not Obi Wan, or Qui Gon, or any of the good guys.
Now....that's something I just can't understand.

 

You're my best friend now. Thanks so much. You've described exactly my preferences, and my dislikes. This line encapsulates it:

...you prefer the RO approach with more depth, but a shallower depth of field.

That's what I was trying to say. I like depth, not depth of field.

The reason for that, I think, is simply that the RO approach looks more realistic, somehow a lot more natural, and also presents a sense of scale that you don't get with a lower depth approach. Which is why I think those large format cameras used for RO and Mando should be used on every Star Wars project...Greater depth and shallow depth of field gives it both a cinematic/ massive AND documentary look, which I think is a perfect combination. Thanks for giving me the vocabulary to better describe my esoteric preferences.

The other key preference I have is for Fraser's brilliant combination of soft lightning, but with a sharp resolution. That's what seems to give his digital shooting the edge on film (even though I previously preferred film). He removes what's unpleasant about digital through softening up the colors, but keeps what's great about it, which is that lush detail. Anyway, I think Fraser, his understudy Idoine (who did DP for a bunch of Mando episodes) and Lubezki, are three of the best known DPs in the world, and hope Star Wars taps their talent as much as possible. Deakins is great too, though he washes things out a bit too much for my liking sometimes (Arrival).

And the grading. The grading on TLJ is almost a deal-breaker for me (as are what I think is an overuse of big stadium lights, if I'm not mistaken). I just really dislike the confection-y look of that movie (Crait perhaps being the biggest culprit). The natural look of the OT, RO and Mando (and TPM) is far more my speed. It's what sells me on the galaxy being a real one.

In summary, I find this shot:



To be far superior, in every way, to this shot:



To be melodramatic about it, I almost can't stand the latter. Reminds me of a bad mass-produced painting you might find on the wall of some outdated video game store in a strip mall. Or worse yet, it comes dangerously close to Thomas Kincaid-esque...an airbrushed style I dislike so much that it almost makes me angry.

 

That is mostly on TLJ though.
When it was just TFA complete only Han didn't make it out alive. Imo that death made the movie better, to be blunt.

Luke dying and Rey not a descendant is on RJ, not JJ.

I agree Ben Solo should have lived. They took the easy route I think, not actually having to write a convincing atonement arc. Much neater - which sucks; like Revenge of the Sith it should have been a 3 hour film at least. Apparently Disney didn't think we had the attention span.

Clean way to tie her to the cosmic force story. Additionally, our original protagonist was the son of Vader don't forget.

 

It's not like Kylo as a character himself didn't warrant a "death ending" in-universe. Kylo was the major villain of the trilogy; if the OT 3 and RO heroes can all get killed off, he definitely can. I think it's bad enough they gave him the "bring a loved one back to life" power, but letting him live and have a happy ending would've just made him more hateable.

And I think Rey Skyfaker was simply a ''blood is just blood" / ''your identity is up to you" message, emphasized with the irony of a Palpatine taking the name Skywalker. Which I get the sentiment of, but I don't think it was worth it.