ST What does the ST add to the Saga? What is its story purpose?

Those aren't lore breaking just nitpicks and some of them like force ghost lore has been in place since the OT.

 

Not literal

Return of the Jedi

Again not literal

What's wrong with adding new stuff, it's Star Wars, it's fake and in space, midiclorians weren't a thing until they were

The Sith have been around for 10,000 years, they had plenty of secret planets and cult places...That literal breaks nothing.

??????? That makes no sense on how that's a problem.

Because Palpatine wanted to get revenge on the Skywalkers and what better way than to turn the last Skywalker of the bloodline to the dark side and posses them.

It took forever to build that thing.

Hyperspace has barley made sense in any of these movies, it's fiction.

Now I know not to take you seriously.

Different situation requiring different seduction

He's Palpatine he's pretty OP.

It's the Force it's weird.

Sometimes governments screw up badly

I just don't think we saw the same movies.

Now your just being nitpick here

New Republic won't take on the First Order directly Leia sets up a paramilitary organization to fight them.

They blue up the New Republic capital and blitzkrieg their way into the Galaxy, armies have done that and it's worked.

So the force then...Got it.

Nothing says they CAN'T do that.


@godisawesome

Not really because that's subjective too I honestly care about how the Legends verse goes in the Post RoTJ era and honestly the ST is more true to Star Wars in my eyes then ANYTHING post Endor Legends ever was.

You just said everything is subjective and then made a objective statement regarding legends.

We're gonna have a generation that says that Canon and the ST is more true to Star Wars and Legends is wrong...So again a subjective opinion.

I can say the exact say same about Legends...so again SUBJECTIVE OPTION...and you gave a objective statement.

 

Legacy with Cade Skywalker, a new version of the sith coming back, A just Empire that spawned from the Imperial Remnant and the Galactic Alliance were far cooler and more interesting concepts than anything we got from the ST and pushed the narrative forward in interesting ways. I also really liked how Cade's power made him complicated and it was the power that Anakin had turned for which as you point out is given to Rey and Kylo free of charge.....

Agree to disagree then everything about Palpatine in the ST and Snoke alone are lore breaking to the original six films. If your fine with anyone coming by and retooling canon and the way things work then that's fine but Star Wars then no longer has that Mythic status as it can reinterpreted and changed by whoever is running the show. That demeans it's nature, history, rules of the universe and the stories that came before like the OT did with the ST. It sounds to me like you just like Star Wars whatever form it comes in even if it doesn't give a crap about what came before.

 

I despise the Legacy comics they are everything I hate about Star Wars all wrapped into one single comic.

 

The biological connection mattered to Luke and Vader, sure. My point is that the biological connection was a necessary condition for what happened in ROTJ, but not a sufficient one. You can't read without a brain, but the brain won't read if you don't learn how to do it.

In ROTJ biology was validated thorugh the force. It had to be, since there was a wall between father and son, and that wall was Vader and his crimes.

You can see that wall with Leia: she was biologically connected to Vader, but that was not enough, and she remained Leia Organa. Her father was Bail, as far as she was concerned.

So, the force was an element. Invisible, but an element nevertheless. So, in theory it could be addressed in isolation, independently from biology (Luke and Vader knowing to be father and son) and backstory.

What if Luke had sensed that conflict within Vader -'there's good in you, the Emperor hasn't driven from you fully'- without knowing about him being, in fact, his father? What would have been the appropriate course of action as a jedi, faced with that conflict?

Yoda was as clear as Lucas: 'you will know [the good from the bad] when you are at calm, passive. A jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack'.

'Calm, passive, knowledge, defense' means 'fight, if they attack you'; 'don't fight, if they don't'. Talk, if they talk to you. Talk is 'knowledge', or at least the possibility of it, and preferable to fight. That's why diplomacy (or,sometimes, a mere truce) is preferable to war.

'That library contained nothing that the young Rey does not already possess'. Yoda was talking about the actual jedi texts, of course, but also about the jedi attitude. Yoda liked Rey, and it's easy to see why.
Her openness and passivity towards Kylo were already jedi-like. That's not a weakness, but strength, and the true agency of a true jedi.

In TPM, Qui-Gon went from fighting Maul to peacefulness in a few seconds.

Here, Maul could not attack Qui-Gon, just like Kylo could not attack Rey during the force skype. To be sure, Qui-Gon would have talked to Maul, instead of fighting, if Maul had talked ,instead of fighting or being silent.

That didn't happen in TPM. Maul never talks, he's 100% evil and that's how he was designed as a character.

But you can see how Kylo talks when he's forced not to fight in TLJ, and even calls himself 'monster'...something was 'wrong' with him being a 100% villain - that's how he had designed himself as a character.

'The Mighty Kylo Ren'. Even Snoke knew Kylo for what he was.

Maul had been 'programmed' correctly. There was a bug in Kylo's system. That 'bug' was, for him, a weakness; from a jedi's POV, it would have been 'hope', an opening, the potential beginning of something. So 'calm, passiveness' would have been advised.

It's not said often, but it was Vader who reached out to Luke first. 'I am your father, join me' Yoda described that as 'unexpected' in ROTJ. A jedi approaches that kind of anomaly in a very specific way. You can see how Obi-Wan talks about 'killing' Vader, 'twisted and evil': but Yoda, more cautious, talks about 'facing' him. Yoda was open to Luke being right and to Obi-Wan being wrong. That had to do with Yoda being wiser and not with being family.

Kylo killing Han is the worst possible offence in SW, from the soap opera POV: killing a family member. And yet it only reinforces the point: the more hideous the deeds of the adversary, the more in danger a jedi is of not remaining 'calm, passive' when facing his/her conflict, and therefore the more in danger of not using the force correctly, and closer to resort to aggression or at least to 'duty', like Obi-Wan had done in ROTS. (His 'I will do what I must', so chillingly similar to Palpatine's 'do what must be done'to Vader or to Kylo's 'I know what I have to do')

That's the 'deepest commitment, the most serious mind' Yoda talked about in Dagobah. No exceptions can be made. 'I don't buy it, patricide is too much' is a way of being weak as a jedi. Being open to whetever the force is telling you, no matter how monstruous your adversary, just like Luke and Yoda in ROTJ, or like Rey when facing Kylo, is truer to what the jedi are supposed to be about. Rey healed Kylo Ren: and then Ben, Kylo Ren's 'true self', healed Rey, and the jedi survived.
Then Rey adopted Skywalker, just like Leia had adopted Organa. In both cases, there were things stronger than blood at play.

Monstruous post, and criminally long. So, reader, be like a jedi.

 

I am in agreement with you. That's why Ren's redemption (through Han and Leia) works for me. When I saw Rey was going to attempt to turn Ren in TLJ, I knew that she was wrong, and I (like Luke) was afraid for her naivety and optimism. Wasn't that the point?

Well, the in universe explanation is that she using (that all important Star Wars plot device) The Force sees a vision of Ren turning good. This is her motivation. She trusts her instincts and The Force and is too young/new/naive to realize it's not what she thinks. Luke knows she's wrong, and most the audience suspects this as well. Then, TLJ goes on to show that she was mistaken.

And this I can respect. At least you are being consistent. If one don't like "because of The Force" as a plot device, one needs to at least call it out in all instances in the saga when The Force is used as a plot device.

This can be, and has been, said by some fans with each arrival of every new Star Wars film. I can provide a list similar to yours of fan quibbles/complaints I have seen from ESB onwards about how the "lore and mythology" of Star Wars has been altered. Believe me, this drum was pounded especially hard during the Prequel Era when they were new films.

@ScreamingWoman2019

Yes, yes, yes! Wonderfully written, well thought out, and insightful. I agree with everything you said.

 

When ever i hear someone reffrence legends in regards to the ST i just mute my ears as they are mutch worse, they go against the very idea of Star Wars and GL vision more then the ST ever did. GL hated Mara Jade and in his eyes Luke was a jedi not married with kids. The ST more or less had some of GL vision in TLJ.

 

You despise the Legacy comics and love the ST which is guilty as just as much nonsense as the Legacy comics okay man done here. I loved the comics since it's a continuation of the EU which I had been following so decades so I can get not liking it but to despise them and find the ST superior when they do a lot of things the same yeah nope no point in continuing this conversion.

 

Well even then in 20 years kids are gonna be like..."What is Legends"

Some might like it.

Others will be like "This is weird and I don't like it....I prefer what we have now thanks"

To say one is Objectively better than the other is objectively in itself....wrong.

Yeah and most people haven't been following the EU for decades and that makes up a majority of people going into these movies....The EU fanbase is a very niche fanbase. Larger than some, but not that large.


@jaimestarr Honestly I do wonder how Luke went from "I'll never join you" to "There is still good in him" like...what story and journey did he go on.

 

People in few years be what legends i thought it died off. EU will soon be forgotten and the superior ST will be the ones fans regular people remembers. You talk about lore breaking go watch GL do that in TCW with mortis and stuff, and Rebels with Filoni. Even the prequels has lore breakin stuff evev the OT.

 

Well defiantly not forgotten but we will get to a point where people say that Canon is to them THEIR STAR WARS and Legends is the opposite.

Which is perfectly fine.

 

I liked the ideas of the Legacy comics, but I didn't like Cade at all.
Darth Talon was an amazing villain though.

 

We already have that more or less. Canon Star Wars is the future and legends is the past.

 

Darth Talon was the worst. Particularly her design. Just awful male wish-fulfillment BS.

 

Too bad for them, they get the crappy version.

Even if it was, even if a character is supposed to make a stupid choice and I, as an audience member, can see it is stupid, I still need to understand why they would make that choice. Luke running headfirst into what was obviously a trap on Dagobah screamed "that`s not gonna end well". He knew it, everyone knew it but I completely understood why he would do it.

In the ST I don`t have the slightest idea why Luke came to the utterly dumb conclusions he spouted in TLJ and neither did I have the foggiest why Rey became all "Beeeeen" randomely mid-movie after the first two or so Skype sessions. The movie didn`t sell me on the characters doing the things they did.

Leia is a less forgiving person than Luke, he has a milder temperament, she is more fiery. Padme was way more forgiving than Anakin ever was, people are different. So Leia wouldn`t have the same reactions Luke had, sure, but that was a matter of their difference as people.

Nor did Leia ever idolize some, even made-up version, of her biological father. Bail was there to be her idol, Uncle Owen obviously didn`t fill that role for Luke. They led different lives. All that contributed to them having different reactions. If you beamed a force vision about goody-Anakin into Leia`s head in the OT and told her he was her daddy, she would still not have run off to try and redeem him.

 

Darth Talon and all other sith that were sexyfied should be never gotten approved. I hope never see those again.

 

Thank you someone said it! The aesthetics of the Legacy comics is honestly my biggest gripe with the whole thing....But we're getting off topic here ;p

A lot of comics at that time had this issue Star Wars comics included sadly.

 

Apparently a character inspired by Darth Talon was in the works during early development of the ST before Lucas sold Lucasfilm. It's been said George Lucas really liked the design of the character. An idea was that she would seduce the proto-Ben Solo to turning to the Dark Side. Below is some early concept of Talon and Uber(later renamed Snoke) for Episode 7.

 

I'm sure some people thin our generation got the cruddy version In fact I KNOW people who think we did.

 

And maybe if the new batches of films are a hit in 5-10 years, there will be people thinking: "good riddance to the ST, this is where it`s at."

 

I prefer the superior version and not the crappy comics version thank you.

 

Exactly it's a generational cycle that goes on and on and on

 

People like what they like and dislike what they dislike.

 

I prefer the superior version as well. Which is why I sold off the few things I bought from the ST and nothing from that, including further stories, will ever darken my doorstep again.

In fairness, the OT enjoyed more than one generation of fandom or else you wouldn`t have OT fans that are kids or teenagers or twentysomethings and there clearly are.