What if George Lucas Hates Fanfiction?

I don't think anyone has a right to tell other people what's 'Trash' or 'defamation' of a particular character.

So if I were to write Jaina Solo as a lesbian Force-vampire with a penchant for young girls, you wouldn't find that offensive or defamatory?

 

1) It's NJO, to me that's 'defamitory' to Star Wars itself.

2) It's NOT MY PLACE TO DICTATE what other people write!

3) They could write Jaina Solo the (edit: Agressive manly lesbian) who goes back in time and has a torrid affair with Taun Wee and Jar Jar's Mother and I wouldn't care - granted, I wouldn't read it either.

On a last note, I've stated my case and have a class to get to - but suffice to say I may not *like* all fan fic, but the day I (or anyone else) can tell other people what to write will thankfully never come.

 

I suspect some dislike certain aspects of fanfiction because we have enough trouble sharing what we do with our non-writer friends without the parts of it that tend to make some people uncomfortable. For instance, I have a friend who has a bad opinion of fanfic because he read a couple with a woman romanticly involved with her superior officer and that bothered him. Part of me curses those fics he read for making it harder for my friend to accept fanfiction. But on the other hand, if we eliminated all the fics that made someone uncomfortable or that someone didn't like, we'd miss out on a lot of great stories. And it seems unfair to say those crazy unconventional things done by good writers are ok, but those done by authors who aren't so advanced shouldn't be allowed.

I can also think of a film that changed the sexual orientation of a major character and had him in a romance with someone he clearly not involved with in the original written work. And yet Breakfast at Tiffany's earned alot of praise from critics and the public. I have to admit that I loved the romance with Holly and Fred even if it is derivative and has no basis in the original book.

Note: I'm not arguing that tf.n or any web/forum host shouldn't be able to rule out certain types of stories (like slash) according to their TOS. Just whether some things should exist at all.

 

Breezy: I think you're taking offense where none was honestly meant to you personally.

What Jedi979 offered was an opinion. What you specifically replied to in the first place follows:

Key words being I consider.

I fail to see the difference between his statements of opinion versus yours.

Both statements taken by an individual could be read with the interpretation of offense, by those who write Obidalas or those who write anything in the NJO era. I'd prefer to think of them as your opinion, and as such I can choose to ignore it.

How is the opinion like the one to follow...

...any less different than yours? Both are exclusionary. You and others feel that anything beyond some set standard - the movies, the early EU, I'm not sure - defames Star Wars and its intentions. Still others feel that warping canon characters beyond George's design isn't true fanfic as they see it. Both stances potentially offend; unfortunately you find fault with Jedi979's position simply because his offends you personally. It is an undeniable truth that there is always something about another that might offend. But you have to look at the intention. I don't think Jedi979's intention is to post an offense to you. He's simply expressing his opinion.

If everyone were to jump upon another for having an opinion, then this thread and many others would be a bloody mess. Your opinion offends many more, so should we all react as you have? Care should be taken to respect opinions. Argue things that can be argued; opinions are rarely changed.

 

Thank you, TK. I thought Breezy was taking my comments a little too personally.

 

Let's take a deep breath here, everyone.

 

There is always going to be some aspect of fan fiction that someone doesn't like, just like in the world of published authors. What is the difference if a story is about Obi/Padme or Obi/Ani? Neither existed in the world of GL...but most definitely exist in the world of fan fiction. People write what they would like to see, and there are so many stories out there to fit so many different tastes...I for one think it is great. Truthfully, I like my fan fiction to be EU and AU...when I want GL's world alone and all of the canon characters acting in their "correct" charcterization, I just watch the movies. I love the spin that most of the fan ficcers put on a character and I tend to like non canon relationships. Point is we are having fun and not hurting anybody in the process.

 

What is the difference if a story is about Obi/Padme or Obi/Ani? Neither existed in the world of GL...but most definitely exist in the world of fan fiction. People write what they would like to see, and there are so many stories out there to fit so many different tastes...I for one think it is great.

 

You know, it's interesting that there are Obidala hints in the ROTS novel, which Lucas himself line-edited. Granted, it was just Palpatine putting ideas in Anakin's head, but you get what I'm saying.

For myself, I see fanfic in two ways: pure entertainment, and practise for the real thing. As pure entertainment, writers are showing how much they love the GFFA. They write the plotlines that interest them, or they rewrite certain elements of the movies and novels because they wanted to see those go in a different way. Maybe people who do fanfic for these reasons are indeed trying to make the saga "better," but they're not trying to make money off of it. And it seems like they adore the OT - it's the PT and EU they have problems with.

And even the people who write in the OT - an AU of the end of ESB isn't necessarily created because the writer thinks the movie sucks. It's because the writer wonders, "What if?" That's at the heart of fanfic, even if people don't actively think that when they write.

The people who use fanfic as practise for professional writing - to me, they're obviously not out to infringe on Lucas's copyrights. I see it more as developing a writing style and a handle on characters and plots. The galaxy's already there, and it comes with a stock of cultures and situations. Makes it a lot easier for aspiring writers to start out.

I suppose I can understand if Lucas doesn't really like fanfic. LFL employees aren't allowed to read fanfic, in case they get an idea from a fan and apply it to a published work, and then you have legal issues, or something like that. I forget the details. I mean, it's his galaxy, his characters, and he has a certain way of viewing them. Whether or not you agree with his interpretations, he's the one who came up with this world that sucks up so much of our free time - and money! And perhaps the reason LFL handed down certain rules for this site is that TFN is a very high-profile place. Other sites with racier, more graphic fics might get the same amount of traffic, but probably not the same size spotlight.

Also, look at the AtomFilms fan film contest, in which Lucas himself picks a winner. Entries have to use original characters, original music, and have a limited number of recorded sound effects at their disposal. So it's not like they're treated any better than fanficcers are. Maybe from Lucas's point of view, he doesn't want Joe Schmoe doing a fan film about Obi-Wan, with some decidedly un-Ewan-like guy waving a lightsaber around with decidedly un-Ewan-like finesse. On the other hand, LFL people might spot some really great graphics work...

I guess in the end, I don't think he hates fanfic because he knows exactly who's in charge. People might extoll a particular fic for being a superb piece of SW writing. And yet how often are we always deferring back to "Lucas said so"?

 

My only comment after four pages is this:

Who care what George Lucas thinks? If we did, then we'd all appreciate Jar Jar Binks as the clever counterpoint to Obi-wan.

This discussion is like that argument a few months ago of whose ship is better, of whether canonical pairings or more creative ones are the way to go. There's no point to it.

Some authors, for example, don't allow for fanfic (I belive Nora Roberts is one of them, and you won't find any of it on the internet because her lawyers will hunt you down. And that's just Nora Roberts. GL easily can put a stop to this if he wants to since he can afford a thousand more lawyers than she can. So until or unless he says otherwise, fanfiction is here to stay.

Edits: What's with the weird symbols?

 

Who care what George Lucas thinks? If we did, then we'd all appreciate Jar Jar Binks as the clever counterpoint to Obi-wan.


He's NOT???

*yes I removed my post because I figure some things are'nt worth the bandwith*

But I still don't see anything wrong with (edit2)
WRITING slash/Jar-bi-dalas/R2-Qui-Solos....


You don't like 'em don't read them.

 

So until or unless he says otherwise, fanfiction is here to stay.

I can't remember where I heard it, but I thought he put a cease & desist on a couple of hardcore NC-17 sites? I'm sure some of those fics still found happy homes elsewhere.

Other than that, I really think the bottom line for him is that we're not making money, so he generally doesn't care.

 

Well, the scene with Boss Nass almost convinced me...

I love adherence to canon, but if we stick so closely to canon and not allow for our interpretations, then what's the point of fanfic? Fanfiction is a deviation from canon, therefore every story on these boards is not strictly G-canon.

Exactly.

I saw a Padme/Jar-Jar fic on the boards, and it was quite funny. No one was offended, and if someone finds it upsetting, then they don't have to read it. It's called having choices.

For my part, I'm writing a Jag/Shawnkyr story, though most can argue that it's a pairing that would never work (though I argue that it is canonical if perhaps improbable). Do some people have a problem with it? Sure they do. It's an interspecies romance featuring a character that is often paired with someone else. And a lot of people don't like the pairing, so they don't read it. No harm, no foul.

But I don't want anyone telling me I'm wrong, that this isn't want GL wanted, or that it would never happen that way. We all have different views on the OT and the EU. That's the luxury of having interpretations.


Edit:

They must have been very extreme sites (perhaps bordering on illegal) because there are several NC-17 sites out there. One just has to search "Anakin Skywalker" fan fiction and you'll get some choicy hits.

 

I would actually like to point out that Robin Hobb want's people to create their own stories, set in their own world, etc, which I don't think is a bad thing. There are some Star Wars fanfiction writers who want to do that and there are some who are such good writers that I wished they did. i've written an article for my site about the fan fiction rant and in it I try to make a more balanced veiw of it - there are some points that Robin Hobb makes that I wholly agree with, but others I don't. (one of them being is that you can write a SW fan fiction story that doesn't even touch upon what has gone on in the films or novels and is almost a stand alone story in its own right! The Legend of the Blacksaber by Tattoinewizard (aka the wandering shadow) proves that.)

I have written a series of fantasy stories and when I get the chance to polish them off and publish them, I wouldn't mind if people wrote fan fiction set in my world, as long as they don't use my main characters - that is one of the reasons why I don't like a lot of fan fiction because they take characters and sometimes put them in pairings etc that I don't like (Obidala, type ones I'm taking about here). If I want to explore a certain aspect of interspecies relationships, for example, I would create OCs for that purpose. There are somethings though that should never be touched on - I don't mind NC-17 stories as long as they don't go too far with it. I read Kelley Armstrong books and the level of adult scenes in them I think is fine, but it's when it gets creapy and a child involved for instance, is when it goes too far and I think that real fans should respect that boundry because it brings the whole thing into disrepute.

 

Again I have to say, if you don't like the pairing then simply do not read the story. I don't see the need to stick to any boundary if you have the proper warnings and disclaimers in your story to alert any readers that may or may not be offended.

As for those NC 17 sites with SW fan fiction on them, they most definitely do still exist, I post my fics on one. The only thing that I have noticed is that as of Oct.31st there has to be a disclaimer on your story or else it gets removed from the site. Before it was only certain types of fics that needed them, now it is everything.

 

And even the people who write in the OT - an AU of the end of ESB isn't necessarily created because the writer thinks the movie sucks. It's because the writer wonders, "What if?" That's at the heart of fanfic, even if people don't actively think that when they write.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone bring up the Infinities comic series. They are nothing but giant 'What If' AU's of the original movies, and have LucasBook's symbol right there on the cover. If GL hated AU's, why sanction those?

Ms. Hobbs stated that authors (or at least, she) didn't like fanficcers to expand on her storylines, saying that if it wasn't in the novel, it wasn't meant to be told. So what prompted those great compilations like Tales of the Republic, Tales of Jabba's Palace, etc. Some of them are the original authors going behind the scenes of their own works, some are other authors taking the hand-off. The whole concept sounds just like many of the fanfics out there, IMO. You can't fit everything into a novel or a movie. It's like the deleted scenes sections in written form.

And isn't starwars.com right now having a contest where fans can create backstories for minor background characters? Isn't this a token nod to acknowledging fanfic?

I remember at one of the author panels at CIII, someone asked if Ben would have any siblings, and Sue Rostoni quipped "That's what fanfic is for."

I'm just grateful that we're allowed to 'play in the SW sandbox' as much as we're able, and that SW authors don't have the same opinions as Ms. Hobbs (at least any that I know of).

 

And isn't starwars.com right now having a contest where fans can create backstories for minor background characters? Isn't this a token nod to acknowledging fanfic?

That's an excellent point.

 

Whoever mentioned the Arthurian legend a few pages back hit an interesting angle in this, perhaps an important one.

Star Wars is recognizably a mythic "matter" in the same way as the Arthur or Alexander stories are, a story that's designed to tap universal themes; it's become part of our cultural fabric, and assumed a role as an extended metaphor and medium for ideas that perhaps we don't have good ways of phrasing outside of storytelling. Add to this the fact that the films themselves are George's realization of his vision through the coordination of the interpretations of a vast supporting cast of actors, designers, storytellers and technicians, and the way the wider canon has been "expanded" by multiple authors...

In terms of what 'fic does, I agree with Trep; it's a form of artistic interpretation and critical commentary on the material of the saga... but precisely because SW is myth/metaphor, are there some things about the Star Wars saga that you can really only say with a Star Wars story in reply? To analyse from a more detached POV is obviously a valid response as well, but you can't communicate everything in the same way; you lose something - subtlety and ambiguity, and things I'm not entirely sure I have a name for...

Or is that just me?

EDIT: I don't think I've expressed myself terribly well in this post; should I write a 'fic instead?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Wok: What did you just say

 

In a similar vein, what about Tales of the Jedi and KotOR? They each take place in the same Galaxy, they're just set thousands of years before any of the action of the "Saga".

As you said, emimar, a lot of us do have original ideas and we often write in more underappreciated areas (that we wish could be appreciated for what they are.)

I think what turns most people off from Ms. Hobb's rant is how over-the-top she comes across. She makes herself seem like a hysterical, paranoid individual who doesn't like anyone having fun except her. (Unless the hysterical angle is played off for laughs. In that case, I'm laughing this much. )

On Slash/different pairings, I agree with those who say if you don't like it, just eschew it. I'm not a keen slash fan (though I've read some beautifully-written ones), and that's my choice. The only homosexually-implied individual that I've ever come across in SW thus far is Juhani from KotOR, and even that was buggy and practically hacked to death by Bioware. (Their call, of course. Not saying it isn't.)

 

How was Juhani an implied homosexual? I played KOTOR several times and never got that feeling.

 

Again, it was basically hacked to pieces. Originally there was supposed to be a romance between Juhani and a female Revan, where one could choose between her or Carth (though I've heard there's a bug that would allow a Male Revan to pursue a relationship with her as well). I don't know what happened with it or why, but it is very buggy and extremely easy to break while you play the game. I've played several times and only completed her romance maybe twice.

It really comes out at the end after the confrontation with Bastila at the temple. If you've completed it successfully, Juhani admits she's come to care for you and asks if you feel the same way, to which you can accept or reject her.

 

Um, then why is there a side mission where you can deal with a former lover of Juhani's? He's a bit of a scumbag hanging out on Tatooine if I remember right. I always wound up killing him for some reason

 

I did a paper on fanfiction for a film class last year. It is now generally recognized in the academic world that fanfiction is the equivalent of telling stories around the campfire. The foremost researcher on the subject (if it involves reading lots of it, can I have his job?) says that television and movies have become the epic adventures of old. And, frankly, the first documented fanfic as written word appeared a looong time ago--they were stories about the world's most famous detective, Sherlock Holmes. (Yep, even Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had to deal with fans and fanfic.)

The long and short of it is, fanfic is here to stay. While there are reams and reams of it out there that make me cringe from the sheer awfulness of the writing, I wouldn't tell somebody that they shouldn't write it. And believe me, I know of some people who shouldn't be writing, because, well, they've been writing for years and still can't manage to construct a grammatically correct sentence.

I rediscovered writing and storytelling through fanfic, and I'm glad I did. I've got a degree in fiction writing now, and I'm working on my portfolio to get into a Master's degree program for it. And while I spend a lot of time writing original fiction now, I haven't given up my fanficcer ways. Why? Because fanfic is a safe place to explore and practice what I've learned in school. It's a got a built-in test audience so you can find out what works and what doesn't work. And best of all, the people you meet doing it can turn out to be the closest friends you've ever had.

BrightFeather (veteran of five or six fandoms)

 

I have to agree with you there about the friends you find doing fan fic. I have met some amazing people in doing this, kind souls who I hope that I am friends with forever! I wonder what it is about the realm of fan fiction that does that?