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What if the Council trusted Anakin?

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith' started by ObiWan506, Jun 28, 2005.

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  1. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    What if?

    What if the Council gave him the rank of Master? What if the Council didn't ask him to spy on the Chancellor? What if they treated Anakin no differently then any other Jedi?

    Do you think Anakin would still have gone to the DarkSide? Do you think Anakin would've trusted the Council more and not been frustrated and insulted by them?

    In the Novel it explains that Anakin wanted Mastership for one reason ... and it wasn't because of pride. He wanted access to the Jedi Archives ... he wanted access to other Master's hologram recordings to see what they said about premonitions. What if he received the rank of Master and didn't need Sidious? Would the combination of trusting the Council and not having a need to save Padmé be enough for him not to turn to Palpatine? Would that be enough to suppress Anakin's hate and anger?

    I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but what do you think? Is the Council's lack of trust the reason Anakin didn't trust them? The reason Anakin turned? Or would his hate and anger eventually make him turn anyway?
     
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Anakin still would've turned because Palpatine's life was in danger, thanks to all that transpired. And even in the Archives, there probably isn't anything that confirms Darth Plaugeis and his abilities. Probably all the text on the Sith and on Prophecies will say nothing about how to cheat death. Don't know if there's any passages on the Ancient Order of the Whills and the Shaman who retained his identity.

    It all still boils down to saving Padme.

    "You almost come a second too late. You're rushing over to make sure that nothing happens-but your anticipation is that they're going to hurt each other, When the lightning starts things are going from bad to worse from your point of view. And when Mace is going to kill him, you have to act."

    "Try and increase how uncomfortable you feel as the shot goes on. Try to think back on the Darth Plagueis story-run that through your head. Take it one step further: you realize that by telling the Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith that Padme is going to die. Basically, you just killed her."

    --George Lucas To Hayden Christensen, The Making Of ROTS.
     
  3. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    Yes ... so it all boils down to Padmé.

    However I'm sure the Council didn't help his decision very much either. If he actually did trust Mace to bring the Chancellor in unharmed ... would he still have gone to Palpatine's Office?
     
  4. Lord_NoONE

    Lord_NoONE Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 17, 2001
    I think the inverse is just as compelling a question as yours, Obiwan506. WHat if Anakin had trusted the Council's wisdom? I sincerely believe that if Anakin had a little more faith in the leaders of the jedi order that things would have been different. He would have heeded Yoda's advice about letting go, he would have taken comfort in the fact that he had truly been given a great honor by being placed on the council, he would have trusted Obi-wan's counsel that Anakin would be made a master soon enough...a lot would have been different. If Anakin would have shown a semblance of patience then things would have worked out.

    However, the visions he was having "forced" him to be impatient with his situation. He couldn't wait; he had to act, and act he did. Certainly the council not trusting him with the task to go after Grievous influenced his feelings about the council and the order generally.

    I'll have to think about this a little bit more and write a more thoughtful response.
     
  5. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Thanks NoOne.

    I still am wondering though if Anakin had trusted Mace, would he have even gone to Palpatine's Office?
     
  6. GherrickfromDorin

    GherrickfromDorin Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 16, 2005
    No, I think he would longer think before having desicion and start to fly to the Palpatine's office and he would give Mace time to kill him.
     
  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Anakin would've gone to Palpatine's office, even if he still did trust the Jedi. He went because he wanted to be sure that Mace and Palpatine didn't kill each other. He wanted to make sure that Mace arrested Palpatine and that there wouldn't be any conflict. It would still pretty much play out the same way, if Mace could trust Anakin.
     
  8. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    So in the end Anakin would still go see if Mace was doing the right thing because he can't risk Padmé's life, right?

    So did his anger or hate have anything to do with it at all? Or is it really all about Padmé ... about his dreams?
     
  9. Disco_Dark_Jeedai

    Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 19, 2001
    I look at it another way. If the Council did trust Anakin and did treat him like the other Jedi I don't think that there would have been that strong of friendship with Palpatine that he did have. According to the movie Anakin was wanting more for his life. Now was this something that Palaptine was influencing him on or was it something he wanted on his own? But had the Jedi treated him differently, he wouldn't have necessarly have sought out a deeper friendship with Palpatine. He would have had no need for that. Another failure on the Jedi's part.

     
  10. ObiJuanQuito

    ObiJuanQuito Jedi Youngling star 5

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    May 20, 2005
    anakin would have still turned...

    Anakin would have probably used The rank of Master as a justification for his decisions
     
  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    It's everything. Anakin's fear is that he'll lose Padme. This fear intensifies while sitting in the Council chambers and worsens once he arrives in Palpatine's office. His fear turns to anger when he tells Mace that he needs Palpatine alive. And that this isn't the Jedi way. But Mace isn't listening to him. Anakin's anger quickly grows and turns into aggression, which prompts him to lash out to stop Mace.
     
  12. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Apr 23, 2005
    Anakin wanted power, that's all. Even if he was made a Master, he still would have wanted more. and he knows he should'nt. lol. his lust for power would have drove him from the Jedi Order regardless of him being made a master or not.
     
  13. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

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    Apr 17, 2004
    Don't we already have an ROTS "What if..." thread?
     
  14. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Apr 23, 2005
    good point. :oops:
     
  15. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    However this isn't merely a quick one answer thread, it's more of a detailed discussion. I've already made sure that this thread is okay.


    I think Sinister brought up all the right points. Everything that Anakin has (anger, hate ...) is all driven by his love for Padmé. Only when he feared for her life did he really start having these feelings come out more. If he never had a dream about Padmé dying then I doubt his anger and hate would've transpired into much. But since he did have a nightmare about his wife dying, that fear dictated his hate and anger. Without that fear, he would've been fine.


     
  16. Naberrie_SkyWalker

    Naberrie_SkyWalker Jedi Knight star 5

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    Jul 30, 2002
    I dont know if things would have turned out differently. he DID try to go the Yoda about his dreams, about his fears but Yoda did not give him the answer he was looking for. Palps did, in a fashion, or at least gave him hope of one. how ever much Anakin may have trusted MAce or Yoda or een Obi..at that moment..when whatever Jedi had corned Palps...if he had felt they were going to kill palps..take away the one person who had seemed to have the knowledge he needed to save Padme..i see the same thing happening.
     
  17. SSIntimidator

    SSIntimidator Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 24, 2003

    Like I said about a month ago, it all comes back to the chick. The ONE constant in every universe. It's all the woman's fault :)
     
  18. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    His anger, aggression and hate apparently weren't even enough to persuade Anakin to fully embrace the Darkside. But once you add Padmé to the mix ... he's down the path of the Darkside before he knows what hit him.

    Now eventually maybe his "hate" emotions would get the best of him ... but Padmé acted like an accelerant.
     
  19. JediPrettyBoy

    JediPrettyBoy Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jan 10, 2005
  20. GeneralDave

    GeneralDave Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Sep 8, 2003
    It all stems from anakins greed... he always wanted it all, power, padme etc. Even if the jedi had acommodated him more, he was heading for the darkside one way or another. And, of course, Palps was playing him like a fiddle
     
  21. thechozn1

    thechozn1 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 15, 2005
    The main thing in my opinion would have been that they would have sent him to take care of grevious. If he was off doing that then he wouldn't have been there for the Palps fight. I think either Palps foresaw that they wouldn't send Anakin or he knew that if he put Anakin's name in the hat then the council would have said no to it simply to spite him. Remember Mace's "the council will make it's own decision on who goes" line.
     
  22. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    True. However I think Palpatine knew the entire time. He already knew that Anakin was meant to spy on the Chancellor so the Council wouldn't send Anakin away ... because then spying might be sort of tough.

     
  23. muTron

    muTron Jedi Youngling

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    Apr 14, 2005
    What the council should have done was to send Obi-Wan AND Anakin to Utapau. Mace did not because the Council suffered from arrogance at that time, something Sidious was hip to.

    Which leads to this question: Would Sidious have enacted Order 66 if Grevious had been destroyed by Anakin and Obi? Possible reason to...With Grevious defeated the war would effectively be over. His sham War powers would be obsolete and he would be at risk of losing his seat of power.

    Or would be have waited so as to spare Anakin still trying to seduce him to the dark side?

    By the way this is my first post. I have been a long time lurker. I really enjoy these forums.
     
  24. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    Great point. No I don't think Sidious would've hade Order 66 enforced until he had Anakin under his belt.

    BUT, Sidious knows Anakin will not be sent to Utapau. The Jedi need him there to continue to spy on the Chancellor.
     
  25. JediSF

    JediSF Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 15, 2004
    What if Anakin didn't allow himself to be ruled by his emotions and trusted the Council?
     
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