main
side
curve

CT what is so great about ESB ?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by cantthinkofone, Dec 15, 2021.

  1. DartJackson

    DartJackson Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2020
    Personally, I have always put ANH higher than TESB.
     
  2. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    There was music composed for it, but it works much better without it.
     
    FightoftheForgotten likes this.
  3. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    ^ Which must be extremely rare for a John Williams score.
     
  4. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Not really. Empire has many sections where the music was removed - many early Hoth scenes, some early Yoda scenes, the beginning of the duel...
    It almost feels like Williams scored the film almost wall-to-wall and THEN they decided that some sections didn't need music anyway.
     
  5. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Let me put it this way. If after several viewings of TESB find yourself slightly unimpressed with it, then you should simply accept your feelings about the movie. I don't see how reading other opinions that are different from yours will or should change your mind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  6. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    The soundtrack seems to have been scored with the Wampa subplot still intact.

    The scene where Yoda lifts the X-Wing has one extra da-dum.

    And as has already been mentioned, the lightsaber duel music was removed. Probably because they realized the scene plays better with tension and the music doesn't sound very tense.
     
  7. Wu Wei Jedi

    Wu Wei Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2021
    The fairy tale vibe. Dagobah scenes are my favourite scenes.
     
  8. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2019
    ESB is my second favorite SW film (first is ROTS).
    I liked the Luke scenes and Vader scenes, both for the characters themselves (both of whom I liked) and learning what the Force can do (e.g. lifting heavy objects without touching, choking across a screen).
    My favorites were the Luke AND Vader scenes, and among them the father reveal was the best part. It was amazing to see that Vader had a son he actually cared about.

    By the way, I found the trailer for ESB to be rather misleading. Iirc there was only one brief Luke scene and no Yoda at all? Most of it was Han and Leia scenes, and a lot of bang bang bang explosions with no story. It looked boring and my mom and I almost decided to not watch ESB. Good thing I tried opening up the movie itself and randomly clicking the progress bar to a few spots to get a better feel of what the movie like.
     
  9. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Wait, what? No, that's not correct. The wampa subplot was removed months before Williams scored the film. And the full soundtrack matches the finished cut pretty much perfectly.
     
  10. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    There's tons of extra music for the Hoth sections. I always assumed it was intended for the Wampa stuff.
     
  11. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    The cut music is actually all for the finished scenes, in the final cut the music was simply dialed out or replaced with tracked music from elsewhere (eg. The snowspeeder search for Han and Luke's original score is replaced by the Escape from Cloud City music). The only deleted scene in the OT that had music composed for it was I believe Tatooine Rendezvous, the scene from ROTJ with Luke constructing his lightsaber in the cave and communing with Vader.
     
  12. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Correct. Williams scored pretty much final cuts for both ANH and Empire, so the music fits like a glove to the finished scenes (the exception being the pick-ups for ANH, which were added later).

    The whole wampa subplot was scrapped by Lucas during principal photography of Empire.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  13. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    Can I just say how glad I am that the Wampa stuff was cut out. It did nothing for the pacing and the shots themselves looked terrible.
     
  14. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Really I think ESB at its core is Lucas trying to do a more adult film than the original, giving up on his idea of a series of adventures for the franchise in favour of something more substantive and subtle. Ultimately I think that decision and the work done by those hired to bring it about is what turned Starwars from a fad into something with serious cultural staying power.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  15. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    I think "A New Hope" had staying power. It's ironic, considering that "TESB" made the least money of all the three OT movies. And now many are trying to put it on some kind of pedestal.
     
  16. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    I mean ANH would always be remembered the same way say ET is remembered but I think ESB have a lot more substance to the franchise which really helped to sustain it longer term.
     
    Darth__Lobot and Riv_Shiel like this.
  17. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    But all of the Star Wars movies made by Lucas have sustained over the years.
     
    Beautiful_Disaster likes this.
  18. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    You mean other than everything?
     
    FightoftheForgotten likes this.
  19. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Mostly due to the connection to the originals though and even then I think pretty clearly less so than them with the public at large.
     
  20. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    TESB made less than the other two OT films, but it made the most the year it came out. 1980 was just not that good of a year for films... but TESB still made over twice the amount of money that the second highest grossing film of 1980 (9 to 5) made.

    TESB made $209 million.
    9 to 5 made $103 million

    As far as I'm concerned, that's pretty impressive.
     
  21. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    It has some of the most iconic scenes in franchise history:

    - Luke finally gets a real kiss from that girl he likes in the first film
    - the comedic stylings of Harrison Ford are in full display when a box of tools falls on Han's head
    - a Muppet plays with a flashlight
     
    christophero30 and Sarge like this.
  22. Lord-Skywalker

    Lord-Skywalker Hangman Host/SFTC MLB Bonanza Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2002
    For me, simply eveything.
    Watching ESB in the theater in 1980 and the leaving In amazement. A feeling that will never be topped again. The quotes alone from Vader and Yoda live in infamy, much like the Godfather.
     
  23. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    No, I don't.
     
  24. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Actually ESB made less domestically than RotJ but more overseas. So the WW total is greater for ESB than RotJ.
    Also, the SE of ESB made more than RotJ. ESB made 67 M while RotJ made 45 M.

    And if we are talking profit margin then I think ESB has RotJ beat as well. Not sure but I have read that the break even point of RotJ was substantially higher for RotJ than for ESB. ESB had to make about 65 M back in 1980. RotJ had to make 115 M.

    As for what makes ESB great?
    To me, it is the best made film of the PT and OT. The acting on the whole, the writing, the directing, all of it was really good. But "best made film" does not have to equal "my favorite." I go back and forth about ANH and ESB and most often, ANH is my favorite. ANH had some truly great performances but also some less than great, Mark and Carrie were better in ESB.

    It took risks, it did not do the usual "sequel" thing of just making the original again only bigger, louder and faster.
    It had the action climax early and ended on a more down note. The heroes were alive to fight another day but they had lost a lot.
    And it left unresolved questions, did Vader tell the truth? Who is the "another"?

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
    FightoftheForgotten likes this.
  25. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    People who were kids when the PT came out think it's funny now that they've become so meme worthy. Hardly anyone thinks that they're good movies. This franchise has been riding on the coattails of TESB since 1980.

    The only other noteworthy film from this series is ROGUE ONE.
     
    Darth__Lobot, Aethereon and Sarge like this.