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CT what is so great about ESB ?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by cantthinkofone, Dec 15, 2021.

  1. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    I wasn't a kid when the PT was first released. And the trilogy has plenty of fans. Why is that hard for you to accept? It doesn't mean you have to like the PT.
     
  2. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 4, 2016
    You don't what?
     
  3. Aethereon

    Aethereon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2022
    The Empire Strikes Back turned the hero's journey on its head.
    It was unexpected, especially for film, especially for a newly beloved cult franchise in general.

    "The Empire Strikes Back" is incredible, just in title. The first/last released movie was just "Star Wars." Let that sink in.

    Lucas had already discovered merchandising dollars, etc - what did he have to lose? There's a personal era of darkness in Lucas' life that was taking place, without a doubt influencing the story and risks with the film, but it's not anything remarkable compared to any other creator. He contracted out the new movie.

    It turns out, that in terms of the Star Wars franchise, THIS SINGLE MOMENT IN FILM HISTORY made a legacy possible, for everyone.
    For those who experienced it PT first, it was Lucas' so-called "poetry." I'm sorry.

    Setting all the legacy, firsties, etc stuff aside:
    1. The title of the movie was ominous, titillating.
    2. Luke was a hero in the first act, spent the remaining two acts being broken and stubborn, and broken again.
    3. Han was lost.
    4. Leia had come into her own as a boss, not a damsel.
    5. Luke was awakening to his laziness, his darkness, and the truth.
    6. Darth Vader isn't just some big bad. He's ruthless with his words and his saber. It's not just a father's firm hand, it's a father's emotional and physical abuse. He's the already established bad guy. This dude is a monster (I understand that non-OT-first viewers will be spoiled on this, it's unfortunate).
    7. Luke had a new Mt Everest of the Force to overcome. He was emotionally flayed! He was physically mutilated! He had any reason to distrust disciplines of the Jedi with regard to the Force.

    As movies go, TESB isn't the greatest.
    As Star Wars movies go, TESB is in the top-two, eclipsed only by about 15 minutes of RotJ.

    No attitudes regarding Order 66, No Palpatine/Siduous, Just the Emporer - out there somewhere.
    No medichlorians, just choices. Winners and losers in the latest match at the game of the Force.
     
  4. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    Maybe the main reason ESB never impressed me that much was that for me personally it has unfortunately never had the chance to be viewed properly until over a decade later, so that huge impression ANH made on me was never repeated for the sequel(s). First time I saw it was on a lousy B/W bootleg VHS tape with very bad picture and sound quality with a dubbed voice track. Not that I'm complaining. Back in the day you were happy to have even a silent Super8 reel with about 20 minutes of movie on it.
    First time I saw it in a theater was around 1981, but still only a dubbed version. Zero element of surprise though. I had long known Vader was Luke's father from that VHS tape and novelization.
    The 1st time I watched it "properly" wasn't until around 1995 on LaserDisc with at least some decent sound, if not a super hi-tech home cinema. I did have Dolby Surround and subwoofer though, which was the best I could afford at that time. When the SEs were released later with uncompressed AC3/Dolby Digital, my equipment was already too dated to play the discs in that format.
    Same thing is true for ROTJ btw. 1st time was a VHS bootleg, which didn't exactly knock me out in wonder either. :(
     
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  5. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    I completely disagree with this assessment. As a kid of the PT I can assure you that trilogy and any other trilogy, film and or show connected in the GFFA to Empire Strikes Back is not riding its coattails. Lucas has stated numerous times his negotiations with FOX executive Alan Ladd gave him the power, money and ability to “create his 9 films” and to do it without giving up his “distribution rights” (from the Star Wars Dreams Documentary)

    other noteworthy Star Wars productions since Empire Strikes Back

    - two feature film trilogies
    - 11 different TV shows and continuing
    - animated films

    It’s not on the coat tails of ESB it’s on the coat tails of George Lucas’ revolutionary foresight with naming rights, production protections, executive creative privilege and his vision. This saga is bigger than one film, George Lucas himself has said so..
     
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  6. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    The HALLOWEEN franchise is still continuing as well. And it's still riding the coattails of that initial classic. Same with Ghostbusters and Jurassic Park and tons of the other franchises.

    A long lasting franchise =/= a quality production.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  7. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    A franchise can only last so long on the coattails of the original film if there are plenty of people who liked the movies that followed. I realize there are those who dislike the films that followed the OT. I've encountered those who only liked ANH. But for some reason, these same fans refuse to consider there are fans of those films outside the OT. The media tends to push this same message. Why? I don't know. Is it difficult for these fans to accept there are people who actually like the very movies they dislike?
     
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  8. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    You can like whatever you want to like. One of my favorite movies is some weird "eastern-horror" film named ROBO-VAMPIRE.

    But I would never ever tell anyone that Robo-Vampire is a good movie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  9. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021

    But why do so many fans spend more time discussing how bad the Prequels or the Sequels are, instead of discussing the movies that they actually like?
     
  10. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    Do they? You got anything to back up that claim?
     
  11. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    Reading this forum and other message boards.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    People do both here.

    I like most of the PT, but I’m not going to demand that @FightoftheForgotten and others who dislike it, keep their opinions to themselves just because they dislike something I like.
     
  13. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    The only two Star Wars movies I like completely are ANH and TESB. I think ROTJ and RO are solid blockbusters. TFA, TPM and ROTS are decent Star Wars films (although I think TFA is a terrible sequel to ROTJ). And the less said about TLJ, TROS and SOLO the better.
     
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  14. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    Or maybe you just didn't like it as much as many other SW fans. I say . . . just accept how you feel about the movie. Who knows? Perhaps one day you might change your mind about it. But I think you should allow that to happen naturally (if it ever happens). I don't see the point in trying to talk yourself into changing your mind or allowing someone else to do the same.
     
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  15. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    ANH and TESB are stone cold cinematic classics. I don’t think ROTJ is of the same standard but it’s a fun movie with its own share of iconic moments.
     
  16. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
  17. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    The Special Edition release was my first time seeing ESB in a theater and I enjoyed it more than previous VHS viewings. Something about seeing it on the big screen in an almost empty theater in winter really enhanced the Hoth opening and made it even more immersive. And at the time I had no idea the SE changes would prove to be controversial and thought they only enhanced the experience. That's probably my favorite memory of Empire now that I think about it.
     
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  18. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 4, 2016
    Really though I think looking at this purely from the perspective of box office takings perhaps misses some of the importance of ESB. Again for me really what the film did was shift Starwars from a short term but very popular entertainment fad to something with staying power.

    That didnt happen purely during its cinema run but in the years afterwards on VHS and TV the same way say Star Trek gained a lot of its long term populairty via reruns in the 70's and 80's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
  19. sithboy

    sithboy Jedi Grand Master

    Registered:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Thanks FightoftheForgotten for articulating what I was thinking.

    I was 5 years old when my dad took me to see ESB. What I remember from that 1st viewing was seeing this amazing story that for me as a 5 year old was dark, scary, and taken in by the characters and plot that was unpredictable from my point of view.

    The Tone
    is the biggest thing about Ep5 that I love and feel no other SW film has come even close to emulating again.
    As mentioned before the Editing and the pacing are on par with what a Template for cinema and story telling should be as a standard.

    Another point is that it felt very Shakespearean in which it has no real happy ending and the heroes get their behinds handed to them. For me that has always been refreshing and feel very "real case" scenario even in a fantasy Sci-Fi world. Also Vader became the villain we all "love" from this movie on.

    Why is ESB so great? - Because of how it makes you feel about a "world" set a long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away......... jm 2cents.


    Stay thirsty my friend...

    Sithboy signing off...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2022
  20. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    I kinda feel like the OP

    I don't dislike ESB but I'd watch ANH and ROTJ before it.


    And yes I watched the OT long before the PT was even made.
     
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  21. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    Don't you mean yourself and others who share your feelings? It's obvious that the member who had created this thread doesn't share your feelings.
     
  22. CloneBlooper

    CloneBlooper Jedi Grand Master star 1

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    Dec 20, 2002
    Big sequels prior to Empire:
    1978 Jaws 2
    1979 Rocky 2

    Empire greatness should now be more apparent.
     
  23. BlueYogurt

    BlueYogurt Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 26, 2021
    Godfather 2
     
  24. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2004
    Dude, Rocky 2 is amazing. Come on now. Best fight of the entire series.
     
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  25. CloneBlooper

    CloneBlooper Jedi Grand Master star 1

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    Dec 20, 2002
    Better than his smack down with Thunderlips? I don’t think so.