main
side
curve

CT what is so great about ESB ?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by cantthinkofone, Dec 15, 2021.

  1. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Finalist star 4 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004

    Hmm. I'm not sure even John Williams would agree with this...
     
  2. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    the compositions were simpler in esb. in the PT he first started using choir with orchestra and more instruments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  3. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    The Emperor's theme from ROTJ says hello.
     
    Tosche_Station and Sarge like this.
  4. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    So does Mola Ram and the rest of the Thuggees.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  5. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    And the solo voice work in TESB when the Falcon flies toward Cloud City. It's supposed to be like sirens from Greek mythology, but you can't really hear it in the film. Either way, to say that Williams didn't start using choirs until TPM is inaccurate.
     
    christophero30 and AndyLGR like this.
  6. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Also the map room in Raiders.
     
  7. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    There's no way to pick a best John Williams piece , there's just so many.
     
  8. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Finalist star 4 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    A few thoughts:

    1. Using more instruments or a choir doesn't make a composition more complicated (less simple). I could use 500 instruments and a gospel choir to play "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" but the notes/writing/composition of the song remains relatively simple....even if the arrangement is more complex.

    2. Complexity doesn't mean "better". Case in point, one the absolute most famous/beloved themes composed by John Williams is Jaws. It's incredibly simply in its structure/orchestration yet, it's one of the most enduring/genius/effective and most instantly recognizable pieces of music ever composed.

    3. Listen, I love "Duel of the Fates". It's perfect in every way. It fits TPM and ROTS like a glove. Yet, it's not as iconic as "The Imperial March." It's not as wonderous as "Yoda's Theme" and it's not as moving as Han and Leia's theme, "Han Solo & The Princess."
     
  9. Olag_Greck

    Olag_Greck Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2022
    It was my first. Also, serial's were not major motion pictures. They were shorts that preceded motion pictures, like cartoons. Can you name a major motion picture prior to Star Wars that had a cliffhanger that compares? I can't think of one.
     
  10. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020

    the movie industry existed for about 70 years before star wars was released. and it was very active. the idea of there were no major cliffhangers before 1980 is inconceivable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  11. Tosche_Station

    Tosche_Station Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Han and Leia's "nerf-herder" banter doesn't really seem that "adult", to me at any rate. Also, I'm not sure that "darker tone" necessarily makes a film better.

    edit:
    The 'character development' seems to come at a price, though. Some plot-points (Rebelllion vs The Empire) are not carried through or seemingly muted in favor of the 'personal stories'; the plot doesn't really seem to have an end-goal/time-lock (I suppose that fixing the Falcon's hypderdrive would be the film's Macguffin). The next film really had a lot of ground to cover..
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  12. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    I guess your username is your answer.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  13. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000
    I wouldn't argue with you about that banter. I said they had great chemistry, that's all. By "adult" I was referring to the more mature themes--the darker tone, the scenes with Yoda, etc. It definitely seemed to be the least-catered to children. Which might explain why it was actually my least favorite as a child.

    And I don't really mind that the Rebellion plot took a little bit of a backseat. Character development is crucial for a good story. Why should we care that they triumph in ROTJ if we don't really care about the characters you know?

    But again, this is all just opinions. This my favorite. I'm just explaining why.
     
    CampOfSorgan and Tosche_Station like this.
  14. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    this is not a debate thread ...
     
  15. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Finalist star 4 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Well sure. I thought that's what we were discussing...our opinions. No? Perhaps I should have simply responded to this:

    With this?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  16. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    ah.
    so what sort of thread do you think it is?
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  17. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Apparently one where you just make up facts.
     
  18. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    I'm sure someone at a record company must thinking that some of his most famous pieces of music would make an unbelievable 'best of' album.
     
    Tosche_Station likes this.
  19. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    I always wonder what this franchise is like for the fans who watch them in episodic order. Is it weird that the politics play such a pivotal role from 1 thru 4, and then are never mentioned again?

    The end-goal is Vader capturing Luke. As far as a time-lock... not necessary for every movie. Although, I would argue that TESB has a few toward the end. Artoo getting the door open is played up as being in the nick of time. Everyone has to get back to Cloud City to rescue Luke just before TIE's end up on them. And, as you already mentioned, getting the hyperdrive fixed in the nick of time to escape at the end.

    I disagree with this statement. GL seems to be scraping the bottom of the idea barrel for ROTJ. We get Tatooine again. We get a Death Star again. There's never any talk about how the Rebellion plans to mend the Republic even though there's more than enough time to have such discussions. ROTJ is like 90 minutes worth of story stretched to a two-hour runtime.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
    Darth__Lobot and Tosche_Station like this.
  20. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    i cant (and wont) discuss your opinion.
    there is a difference between a valid and invalid opinion. there is nothing invalid about yours, so go ahead...
     
  21. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    lets not get into order again... there a million threads that ran wild about this. dont start with this.
     
  22. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    If you plan on telling people what they can and can't talk about, I suggest you take that up with a MOD.
     
  23. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Finalist star 4 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Again, you lead off by saying this:
    I'm sorry if I mistook this as an open invitation to discuss/debate/pontificate on opinions being that you made sure to clearly insert yours for everyone to see. Thanks for the chat.
     
  24. Bee Bee

    Bee Bee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    It's almost like a forum is designed for... discussion! Not sure what the point is of posting your opinion and then being annoyed when people respond with theirs.

    Anyways, back to the actual discussion at hand. Someone earlier mentioned that TESB was their least favorite as a child and for me that was also the case, at least in comparison to the other OT movies. TESB holds the distinction for being the one SW film that has gotten significantly better for me over the years. This movie ages like wine for me and aside from a few tiny nitpicks here and there (no movie's truly perfect of course) I still have yet to find any major issues with anything in this film.
     
    Sarge and christophero30 like this.
  25. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Edit
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022