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CT what is so great about ESB ?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by cantthinkofone, Dec 15, 2021.

  1. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    TESB is an extremely well-made movie and to this day a joy to behold, for the most part. As part of an ever-expanding cinematic universe, though, it no longer stands out nearly as much as it used to.
    This is true for all Star Wars films. The first one, for instance, was at its most special before TESB came along. But then it was recontextualized, so it became a new kind of special. And as long as there was just one trilogy, those three movies really stood out as unique, groundbreaking, awe-inspiring masterpieces.
    Those days are long gone, but those of us who were around to experience that will always remember and cherish that feeling. Because that level of special is all too rare these days, if it even exists.

    Or maybe we’re just really old.
     
  2. HanSolo98

    HanSolo98 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2022
    I honestly understand its popularity. It was a lot more interesting than ANH but, it ended on a cliffhanger. My favorite character in the OT is probably Han Solo or the Luke of ROTJ, and seeing him frozen in carbonite by the time the credits rolled was just sad (maybe I'm too used to good endings), so sad that I had to watch ROTJ almost immediately just to see him rescued. However the introduction of Yoda, Lando, Palpatine, and just a general more complicated story then the first was great. Also, the plot twist of Vader being Luke's dad... Although I knew about it in advance due to the culture we live in, it still was shocking to see. I think the additional elements and the plot made it iconic. [I'm a film student so,...]
     
  3. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Harrumph. Kids these days should be forced to wait 3 years like we did back in the day. :p
     
  4. HanSolo98

    HanSolo98 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2022
    They should @Sarge, but I'm glad I can binge watch SW now. :D
     
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  5. The Quintessential Jedi

    The Quintessential Jedi Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2022
    I preferred ROTJ as a youngster but ESB is brilliant in storytelling elements revolving around the crew and better yet the cliffhanger was also sold well to me, An early depiction of the good guys not winning by the end credits.
     
  6. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    It more than aptly forwards the arcs of the characters introduced in the genre-setting Star Wars- adding a new plot twist, and setting a precedent for the plot twist in narrative cinematic fiction. It adds to the lore elements that we did not see in ANH, such as the light and dark sides of the Force- and goes further in depth about the Jedi philosophy.

    It also raises the stakes from before, giving an uncertain ending, and serves as a pioneer in the cinematic cliffhanger (Escape From The POTA 3 from 1971 may qualify as a debatable cliffhanger, but that movie is much lower-profile).
    It expands in scenery, both ships and locations (think Executor and Cloud City), while making itself feel necessary as a sequel, which is a burden all sequels that weren't planned or not responding to a cliffhanger must face (It seems like a sequel to ANH was always planned, but the first movie itself tells a self-contained story).

    Finally, and this is subjective, but the movie keeps you on your toes and encourages you to root for the main characters. It gives them time to stop the action and let the audience explore them a bit, but it also keeps them on their toes constantly at the same time.

    That being said, for me TESB teeters between ROTS and ANH in my rankings, and I have to put ROTJ solidly on the top. All four of those movies are very close together for me though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022
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  7. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    One thing that has always impressed me about TESB is the attention to detail (which is why I think it's pretty easily held up the best of the OT). You can just tell when you watch TESB that the threshold of "good enough" for each scene was IMO obviously higher than in other SW films (for some it was clearly MUCH higher). This is very obvious when you compare it to ROTJ - which weirdly has some of the worst effects of the OT (along with the best) and some scenes that really needed more takes because the acting was just.... not good. ROTJ has quite a few parts that are just lazy compared to TESB (look at the matte painting quality for example - like that one on the Rebel Flagship in ROTJ is BAD). FWIW, I give ANH a bit of a pass because it was the first and had much stricter budget constraints.

    Another thing that was pretty groundbreaking at the time is Yoda. It's actually amazing that they were able to use a puppet for one of the most important characters and have it be totally believable and have everyone love it in a big blockbuster movie. The crazy thing is that TESB yoda was was better than the original TPM yoda puppet like 20 years later!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
  8. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Maybe it's a generational thing but after ANH hope came out yes Star Wars A New Hope was great but think about the size of the Star Wars universe at that time (after ANH). Jedi could swing light sabers around and had some kind of wisdom but not much else. The only worlds we knew were Tatooine, the Death Star, and the rebel base which looked very earth like. Darth Vader was kind of a scary looking henchman for Tarkin but not much else. Tarkin was the main villain and just kind of a really mean old guy.

    With ESB the Star Wars universe and imagination grew tenfold. The Jedi were no longer just wise dudes swinging lightsabers. Yoda (and Luke and Ben) showed us so many new abilities. Yoda lifting the ship out of the swamp, Obi-Wan's force ghost, etc... Also think of the new worlds we were introduced too. It wasn't just a sand planet and an earth looking planet anymore. We got Hoth, Degobah, and Bespin all very unique compared to what we had seen. We were introduced to imperial walkers and snow speeders on Hoth along with new stuff on the other planets as well. Darth Vader became terrifyingly more powerful and driven. He was an unstoppable force that crushed anyone standing in his way. Minus the very small Emperor scene Vader was the ultimate villain and it was this movie that made him a legendary movie villain. And on top of that the main characters Luke, Han, and Leia were not very deep after ANH. ESB added so much depth to their characters putting them through many tough situations and failures. Most heroes don't end movies missing a hand or frozen in carbonite. The ending left the audience dying to see what happened next and it was a very long 3 years to get answers.

    Honestly for me ROTJ didn't quite live up to the lofty expectations left by ESB. ESB was soooo good and I was expecting ROTJ to be just as good but it just wasn't with the exception of the space battle and most of the throne room scene. Other than that ROTJ kind of let me down with the Jabbas muppet show and the ridiculous Ewoks beating stormtroopers with rocks. Note that they WERE originally going to be wookies but the Teddy Ruxpin doll was popular at the time and Lucas wanted to try to cash in on something cuter.

    In other words I wanted this:

    [​IMG]

    But I got this:

    [​IMG]

    For me Star Wars has never reached the level of ESB again. It's had moments for sure but what a time it was to be a Star Wars fan between 1980 and 1983. Every kid was dying to get Star Wars toys for Christmas. Myself included. Everybody (kids and adults) wanted to know if Darth Vader was really Luke's father or if he was lying. Everybody (kids and adults) wanted to know what would happen to Han Solo. So many questions that everybody was dying to know answers for for 3 years. And with no internet at the time you had to wait and eventually buy your movie ticket 3 years later to find out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
  9. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Oh... this is why ESB is great :)

     
  10. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Skywalker Saga / WNU Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Most everything, but "I am your Father" tops them all.
     
  11. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Well they're going to be waiting a LOT more than that now, since there's not really any SW film officially set to be released anytime soon-not to mention the last one was now over three years ago!

    Assuming they actually DO release a film in 2023 (which unless we're in for some surprise announcement at Celebration, is unlikely now), that means it would've been five years since the last SW movie. It's looking like it will actually be more.
     
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  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Wasn't The Rise of Skywalker released in December 2019 - 2.5 years ago, not 3?
     
  13. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    ...Not if you round up, buddy! :han:


    Still, 4.5 years...5 years...likely even more = a long time without a SW film in theaters. Especially after we spent five years getting more or less one each year!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2022
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  14. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    DP
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2022
  15. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    All these pages of discussion, but the question was answered here.
     
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  16. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Might as well lock now...:p