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Fanclub What Is Thy Bidding My Master? *Darth Vader Fanclub* (All Are Welcome)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Chancellor Yoda, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Hmmm...to give at least a brief reply to your question (probably all I have time for right now): I don't remember having any "problems" with it when I first saw it in theaters and probably up to the time I joined here and started reading about various people's issues with it. At that point, I could totally see where most of their criticisms were/are coming from (for ex, those that think it happened too abruptly, that the way it happened wasn't compelling since it made Anakin seem dense, etc.) but none of that has really taken away from my subsequent viewings. So I guess, ideally, yeah, maybe there was a better way to do it, but I'm ok with what we have.

    Sorry I can't come up with something more profound/in-depth at the moment.:p Maybe other responses will spark further thoughts...
     
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  2. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Thanks for the response, as I don't really have anything in depth either.:p I think the reason I did't like it was it did feel rather rushed and to be honest I found Palpatine being too obvious at times that Anakin should have at least been suspicious. Though, its not really something that bothers me that much.
     
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  3. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Yeah, I think the most rushed part is when he goes from the clearly anguished "What have I done?" (I really like that line, including the way HC delivers it) to immediately seeming to completely accept that he has to take Palpatine's set of orders after Palps refers to the fact that he actually doesn't yet have the power to "save someone from death". But that far into the set-up, I don't know what could've been done to improve it (hence why I'm not a creative writer/story teller myself!).
     
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  4. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Yeah, I agree that I don't really have any ideas myself. Maybe have where Anakin is more relateble you actually sorry for him turning? You do really hate the guy when he chokes his wife so that could be removed.
     
  5. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Skywalker Saga/Fun&Games Mod star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    For the most part I liked Anakin's turn in ROTS but I also thought it was a little rushed. I've always been of the mind that the prequels would have benefited from Anakin being older and already training to be a Jedi in Episode I and having Palpatine focus more on turning him in II and him turning a bit earlier in III, to give more time to develop the turn. I understand Lucas had a daunting task to try and show Anakin as the good man Obi-Wan described and also have him turn in 3 movies which was made even more difficult by having most of Episode I have to do with discovering Anakin.
     
  6. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    We differ on that point, then--I actually feel that the fact that he ended up choking Padme "worked" in the sense that (for me) it amped the tragic factor way up by communicating (in a really devastating way) just how far gone he was by that point. And I liked the "mythic-type" type twist it gave to what happened (that he ended up doing the one most important thing he thought he was working against--i.e., hurting Padme when he had set out to prevent her from harm at all costs...like Oedipus Rex in Greek tragedy, who went out of his way to make sure that he'd never fulfill the prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother, but then the actions that he thought he was taking to prevent the prophecy from coming true actually led to his fulfilling it). Even if one doesn't interpret Padme's death as being directly due to Anakin's actions (i.e., the "dying of a broken heart" idea), he still clearly seriously hurts her (at the very least, at least emotionally speaking), and this is the opposite of intentions to prevent her from harm at all costs.

    But I agree that it would have been nice to have had Anakin seemed more relatable/likeable in AOTC as a better lead-in to his turn in ROTS.
     
  7. PadawanEmily

    PadawanEmily Jedi Master star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    I also felt it was a bit rushed. I mean I enjoyed it obviously because i'm a fan of Vader, but I still feel it was to rushed to really put together any sort of opinion about it. When ROTS first came out I was a little apprehensive on how they approached his fall - because his distrust of the Council and the fact that Palpatine was feeding that distrust was a great tool in the film, which TCW helped cement later on was great.
     
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  8. SatineNaberrie

    SatineNaberrie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2014
    I don't like how Anakin's turn was done.

    SW seems rushed to me at times and skips a lot. I would have preferred it if Padme lived.
     
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  9. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Luke, help me take this mask off. It proves something powerful I think far too many dismiss even enemies are Humans too.

    Fave moment the whole redemption sequence of RotJ it's what makes it my fave SW film.
     
  10. Skywalkin'

    Skywalkin' Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    May 23, 2013
    Count me in.

    I have to say that even after all these years, my favorite Vader scene is his confrontation with Captain Antillies aboard the Tantive. I still get chills.

    I couldn't agree more.

    And, really, I think his big turn was somewhat anti-climactic because GL tried so hard to foreshadow it from the time Anakin was just a tiny helpless kid. It would have been so hearwrenching if Lucas had instead tried harder to sell us on what a good, idealistic young man he was. Instead we get dark premonitions from the Jedi council and his nonstop teenage snippery towards Obi-Wan. Anakin's turn in RotS felt like a Christmas present you unwrap after your parents have spent all year dropping unsubtle hints about what you're getting.

    The only time I actually really felt something during his turn was when Padmé cried that he was going down a path she couldn't follow.
     
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  11. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Hi everybody, how have you guys been doing?

    Welcome SatineNaberrie , Cushing's Admirer and Skywalkin'. :D

    Cubman987

    Jedi Knight Fett

    Pensivia

    PadawanEmily

    Saga Explorer

    Darth_Furio

    JEDI-RISING

    James T Kirk

    SatineNaberrie

    Cushing's Admirer

    Skywalkin'


    Oh, and Pensivia I can see your point on the matter of Skywalker choking Padme. It did have sort of a greek tragedy to it which was what Lucas was probably gunning for. I agree with you it might of worked better if Anakin was more likable in AOTC, as I did find when they had him mass murder a tusken tribe kinda knocked him off the relatable tree for me at least.
     
  12. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Skywalker Saga/Fun&Games Mod star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    So I just read the Darth Vader and the Lost Command tpb for the first time as I've seen many recommendations for it and it was pretty good. It was a bit strange to see Vader having thoughts/dreams about his wife and the life he could have had....I don't like the "human" Vader as much, but I did think this worked as the story is kind of Vader letting go of all of this and fully "killing" Anakin Skywalker for good (well until Luke). It was a good read and it got me thinking about how Vader will be portrayed during this time period in the new "official canon". I don't believe there were any glaring contradictions in this story to official canon so it is one I would be perfectly fine with just assuming is still canon and don't need any of the new books to tackle this type of story again. If any Vader fans haven't read this I do recommend giving it a read.
     
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  13. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    I read it before, quite liked it.

    I did like how they looked into Vader's mind, and showed how he who'd have liked things to happen.
     
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  14. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    First, as far as it goes any sapient character is 'human' in essence to begin with. It does not surprise but does trouble me that about TFN many don't like the supposed 'evil ones' shown for what they are. I believe I understand why in most cases but troubling none the less. Many seem to feel Anakin is more relatable in PT or TCW than in OOT. Cool, but I'm not one of them. I relate to Vader just fine in ESB and RotJ and I prefer him here because I can see his humanity.

    Remembering that an 'adversary' is indeed still a man is a good thing. Plus, understanding motives is good too. One can relate and understand without full agreement of actions or motives. In my experience, many forget this.
     
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  15. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Skywalker Saga/Fun&Games Mod star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    I agree with you, and I know Anakin is in there, but I like stories where Vader is the evil, almost unstoppable monster. I shouldn't have said I don't like stories where he is more "human", should have said I usually don't prefer those as well...just my preference....and I think it's because in the movies we never really got to see Vader purge the Jedi and the OT is pretty much Vader's redemption story (which I love), so seeing Vader the badass villain is something I like to get out of the EU, especially in comic book form.
     
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  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it. :) I don't enjoy viewer or storyteller trying to force me to see X character as wholly evil because it's VERY rare I can't relate to a character to some degree no matter how damaged or troubled. Not saying you are but many have. I agree seeing the story of the Purge would've been good but not to see him 'evil' rather to understand what he was like when lost.

    Everyone approaches a character differently, it's cool and rather interesting honestly! I just wish more people didn't always act like difference = wrongness.
     
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  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Host & 9X Wacky Wed & 5X Who Am I Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Some stories emphasise Vader's cruelty - Marvel SW and Splinter of the Mind's Eye especially.
     
  18. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    As well as the movies.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Cruelty doesn't remove humanity nor always ability to empathise or pity, guys.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Host & 9X Wacky Wed & 5X Who Am I Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The movies don't show Vader enjoying it the way books do though:

    “Do you remember that day back on the station,” Vader mused, with deliberate patience, “when the late Governor Tarkin and I interviewed you?” He placed a peculiar stress on the word “interviewed.”
    Leia had both hands on opposite shoulders and was shivering as if from intense cold.
    “Yes,” Vader observed, perverse amusement in his voice, “I can see that you do. I am truly sorry I have nothing as elaborate to treat you to at this time. However,” he added, swinging his weapon lightly, “one can do some interesting things with a saber, you know. I’ll do my best to show you all of them if you’ll cooperate by not passing out.”
    Leia’s hands dropped to her sides. The fear did not leave her, but she forced it into the back alleys of her mind by sheer will. Running the few steps to Luke’s side, she knelt and groped at his wrist. When she rose, she was holding the lightsaber carefully in one hand.
    Vader looked on approvingly. “You’re going to fight. Good. That will make it interesting.”
     
  21. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Oh, wasn't deputing that, I agree that even when someone is cruel means it removes there humanity.
     
  22. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    :) Thanks, Yoda. Sometimes I think people like IL think I condone evil when I absolutely do NOT. I approach a dark character as a damaged one. I want to know how and why they were hurt so deeply as to derail and do X. Then I want them to heal. I want them redeemed. In spite of many about TFN saying 'not everyone needs/should be redeemed' I heartily disagree and it's my right. I don't approach 'entertainment' as most seem to. That's fine. I simply want to be heard and understood. I possess very high empathy so sometimes it's hard for me to grasp why some don't seem to share it. Plus, very few explain their stances. Many act like they're given ala Tarkin is a Monster. I don't believe that.
     
  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Host & 9X Wacky Wed & 5X Who Am I Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In some stories, the villain was never "hurt so deeply as to derail" in the first place - wonderful childhood, normal life and parents and so forth - they just turned out bad - and nobody else was to blame.
     
  24. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Regarding Vader, and I have read this sentiment echoed elsewhere on the forum, I am thoroughly impressed with not only the character, but the filmmaking around him. When at certain scenes and cuts to Vader, he is clearly conveying an emotion, and to do that through this seemingly lifeless motionless black helmet is just one of the absolute greatest things I have ever seen in all of cinema. Every single time I watch one of these scenes I am thoroughly impressed with how that is done. When compared to a character like Michael Myers in this regard, Vader is unmatched.
     
  25. Darth Argel

    Darth Argel Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 4, 2015
    Oh this is a nice forum find. Like I told my Army recruiter, 20 years ago, where's your pen and the contract. Count me in.
     
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