Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Chancellor Yoda, Apr 20, 2015.
people still think of Vader as the ultimate villain. i think of him now as a sad character.
Yup. Vader is a tragic character. If you don't think Star Wars is about the 'Tragedy and Redemption of Darth Vader', then I don't know what is. With TFA on its way, I wonder what would the saga become? The OT and PT fit nicely into this 'Tragedy of Vader' narrative. But with the ST, how will the saga's main narrative be defined now?
Once the ST is complete it will be the tragedy and legacy of Darth Vader.
A villain can be a sad character.
Absolutely he can! Especially if he's a slave to his own destiny. Can't make the right choices. That's part of what happened here. His whole life was a manipulation by others with no regard to his best interests.
- Plagueis manipulated the Force to create him
- Sidious manipulated his emotions to turn him
- The Council manipulated him to report on their suspicions of Palpatine
The guy really had no control over anything. That's probably what drew him so much to the marriage with Padme (setting love aside for a minute). He could do it on his own. His choice. His actions. His defiance of authority.
As a young man he really wasn't in control of his own life. It's no wonder he later became obsessed with control and power, but Luke reminded him that there are other more important things in life.
Which begs the question... how has this knowledge of his history been twisted for the new movie? Don't want to reveal spoilers, but it is a valid question.
The question is: Who knows that Anakin and Vader are the same person? The Skywalker clan for sure, but who else? Does Kylo Ren know?
I just thought how fantastic it would be to get a book about Vader set between TESB and ROTJ. It could really go in-depth about his inner thoughts and how he changes during the time-period. It would be very touching to see him develop feelings of compassion, regret and love for his son, his only remaining family. Luceno or Kemp would probably do a terrific job with it.
I would love that.
And you know, I think it's quite possible we'll get one. Vader is getting a lot of love in the new canon.
Though the period between TESB and ROTJ has been mysteriously untouched, at least as far as Vader goes. Maybe there's a reason for that which we will discover in the sequels.
Good idea. The book can have the good side of Vader and the bad side of Vader. Yes, we'll see his emotions develop over time, but we'll also see his mystery develop, too. What is the ideal that Ren is aiming for in the new movie? What is the evil ideal and how does that develop?
What the hell is it that Vader started?
If it just turns out to be the extermination of Jedi, I will be a bit disappointed.
C'mon Disney, show us the grand plans of Darth Vader.
Yeah, Kylo’s words in the trailer were really ambiguous. He definitely knows something about Vader that we don’t… I hope.
If he’s talking about the Jedi purge, most of the credit should go to Palpatine, shouldn’t it? Vader just cleaned the leftovers, it was Order 66 that did the most.
But then again, Vader still takes "credit" for the destruction of Alderaan, even though that was all on Tarkin/Palpatine.
Murdering defenceless kids and lesser fighters wasn't so great a deed, I agree. I think Vader would believe that it was necessary but dirty work, nothing to be particularly proud of.
I think we have the case of a legend growing bigger than the man himself. It's somewhat addressed in book one of Aftermath. Kylo may simply be subscribing to a legend of DV that makes him out to be an idealistic warrior-for-a-cause. "I will complete what you started" could mean that the totality of Vader was completely misunderstood and is driving powerful people to do dangerous, murderous things.
We don't know how skilled the adult Jedi at the temple were, but I wouldn't call them all lesser fighters. There should’ve have been seasoned warriors among them. Not every Jedi was in the battlefield all the time, they had breaks. Plus, lesser fighters or not, we saw him going alone against three adults with apparent ease in the temple recordings, and that is impressive
That's a good point, but he also cut them down in what seems seconds, so how good could they really be?
I think Vader had a bunch of awesome and honorable fights in his career, in which he defended what he believed him, but the slaughter at the temple isn't one of them.
In any case I don't think that slaughtering kids is Kylo Ren's idea of a courageous and honorable deed. If he follows Vader, it is because of something else he did.
I fall on the Calavera's side on this one. Anakin was one of the best in the Order, it's true. However there's a big difference between the passion of going for blood (Anakin's goal) and going to stalemate / capture (his oponents). A less-skilled swordsman powered by passion can overpower someone more skilled.
An older pic but digitised of the Dark Lord of the Sith we all know and love -
Now I am imagining Vader casually adjusting his gloves while Han is lowered in the carbonite.
Doing it in style.....
Another cool pic of Lord Vader (least in someone's reimaginings) -
When I was a kid, Vader seemed overrated. He wasn't all powerful in the force and wasn't very adebt with a lightsaber.
However, after watching the movies a few months ago, I realized he lives up to his hype, through his personality and intelligence. He utters the coolest lines in all of the movies like "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter any further."
Power is often relative in Canon.