Fanclub What Is Thy Bidding My Master? *Darth Vader Fanclub* (All Are Welcome)

D'oh!

I meant "fearsome." Not "fearful."

 

The character is very complex and controversial, no doubt. However, he made his own choice and he continued to kill and do what he himself did not agree with... If think it over, I can’t understand one thing a bit - did Vader really believe that he was doing a good deed, so zealously supporting the Palpatine's Empire with all its "charms" and... slavery?

All this seems like some kind of despair, but why maintain a similar course... well... I don’t understand this... On the one hand, Lord Vader is a super strong man who does not give up under any circumstances. But on the other hand, he himself trampled upon his own hopes and dreams of justice, a victory over slavery and a galaxy living in law and order. Because what he was doing was not order... This is a dictatorial "order" based on the sticky sweat of fear.

My soul hurts so much from these thoughts, and for the character itself my heart and soul hurt... to this day...

A cool statuette, but as same profoundly sad to realize, that this pose as curse for Vader, after all he never embarked from it... I found one saying and it fits: "Unwanted slave under the "Republic" while second only to the Emperor under the Galactic Empire. That's freedom for you."

 

To me, it comes from when he was talking to Luke. While a lot of characters said, "You don't know the power of the Dark Side" with zeal, he said it to Luke with resignation. Until that very moment when Luke's life was threatened, Anakin felt he could no more leave the Sith than cut off his own... his, uhhh... well, he's got no more of those left, but you get my point.

 

You brought up Vader and slavery @Merlyn Emerald and I think it's interesting that someone who detested slavery is now willingly serving an order that promotes such things. In fact this was somewhat addressed in the Dark Times comics, really excellent series by the way. This really shows to me how dead Anakin is in Vader as the Emperors justification for slavery is clearly complete rubbish.

 

Interesting discussion going, guys and gals.

One has to remember that Vader was brought up under different circumstances than us. He was a slave in his childhood and the Jedi order also has a very rigid hierarchy and allows very little freedom (you aren't allowed to have possessions or even a girlfriend as a Jedi). So for him, it's the usual course of things that there is a master and an apprentice and this is also part of Sith philosophy. His obedience to Palpatine is not just born out of fear but also out of respect for his patriarch.

That said, I think that emotionally the slavery aspect of the empire does bother him a lot. But he pushes it out because he considers notions of compassion a weakness that is to be cleansed from his soul. It's also rooted in his past life and Anakin Skywalker is a fool to him, so there is that.

As for rule through fear, he knows the power of fear very well, after all he himself uses it to his advantage to subdue opponents. So he accepts it. But he is not a blind believer like Tarkin, because in ANH he warns not to overestimate the power of the Death Star. Vader is well aware that destroying planets could incite Rebellion instead of quashing it.

 

I just watched ROTS last night and noticed towards the end Anakin truly came to love power over even his love for Padme, the very reason he turned in the first place. So thinking about it, anything he previously believed and valued, whether that be his love for Padme or his hatred for slavery, was destroyed by the emergence of Vader and his love of power, which became more his true love then even Padme. Subsequently, as shown by the Vader comics, Anakin and all what he believed in was engulfed in darkness and wouldn't be shown again until the arrival of Luke Skywalker.

In which case I confess, and I know not everyone likes the idea, I do like the notion that Vader is almost a split personality to Anakin.

 

Not into the dual personality angle, tbh.

We see Anakin develop a certain love for power before the turn, it is seen in the prequels as well as TCW (it was better executed in TCW though). For example when Padme meets her former lover in TCW Anakin demonstrates how jealous and possessive he really is. And sometimes he really enjoys killing and hurting others.

His darker traits were already there during his teenage years, they didn't suddenly appear when he turns. Obi-Wan wasn't a very good teacher, I'm afraid, because he didn't adress this enough.

When Anakin finally turned he gave in to the dark urges he always had. The fires of Mustafar, the mutilation by Obi-Wan and Padmes supposed betrayal are what made him quit love later.

Edit:

Also, look at how different Luke's and Anakin's conduct are when it comes to their enemies. Luke will give you a second chance, even if you're an international crime space slug and hurt one of his friends. Anakin however prefers to stab you dead, the only thing that is holding him back most of the time is adherence to the Jedi code. But if you hurt anyone he cares about there will be no mercy, none whatsoever.

 

Fair points @Darth_Pevra and if I'm being honest a lot of this is admittedly complete fan speculation on my part with the recent Vader comics being the only things that even hint at such ideas (and even then they probably weren't even necessarily going for such concepts but who knows). Thinking about it more I believe I like the concept alone by itself and probably in retrospect wouldn't care for it if was implemented full stop in the films and other material. Still, the whole discussion of Anakins persona as Vader is one of my favorite subjects on the character so defiently some interesting discussion.

 

Thank you, Chancellor. I greatly enjoy talking about Vader's arc as well.

 

Likewise and it really makes me wonder how this upcoming Greg Pak Vader series will go. A canon story of what Vader was doing post-ESB is something I'm excited about and unlike the othet series I'll actually try to follow along better. I believe long ago Pak wrote for the Incedieble Hulk so it will definitely be interesting to see what his take on Vader will be.

 

When did you manage to write so much?
Ah, this is an awkward feeling when your brain cannot quickly process a large number of English texts and you do not keep up with the discussion...

This is actually not very good. Revenge is a natural desire. Luke even refused to avenge his own wife... Honestly, I would be offended if my husband did not avenge me. Luke, of course, is cute, but nevertheless... there must be concepts of friend or foe.

Well, yes... And that's kind of right.

I do not want to think that he accepted all this. Rather... well... And what could he do with the topic of slavery if the Emperor himself authorized it? Go against his will? Anakin/Vader has a clear problem with this. On the other hand, when Vader needed something, he could easily go against the wishes of the Emperor, and he did not care for punishment. I don’t know... It turns out that Vader just spat on slavery. Sorry, so sorry. And try to ask him this question - he would be so angry and kill in a moment... In general, he is such an ambiguous character, whom, it seems, you can just love, but it's hard to understand him...

Not really. Anakin has always been and is in Vader. What about the same name comic book, where Vader with Aphra flew to Tatooine? Didn't he kill the whole Tusken village there again, hm? And why? Because he still remembers and loves his mother. This moment just made my heart tighten with tenderness. Despite the terrible background, eh...

 

I'm not like Luke either, like, at all. But I would make a terrible Jedi and probably fall to the dark side just like Anakin did. It's got power. And cookies. What more do you need? Also I look good in black.

 

Good post @Merlyn Emerald and I hope you and Pevra realize your destroying my Vader split personality pet theory.

Granted it was never something I took ridicules amount of serious thought in, just fun speculation.

I could picture myself as a jedi but not very good one. Maybe one like Darth Kr- , I mean A'sharad Hett.

 

Frankly, I was always bothered by the topic of the split personality of Anakin/Vader. He is he, you cannot run away from yourself. And he is so zealously trying to prove to himself and everyone that Anakin is no more, that... only proves that Anakin is and will not go anywhere.

I already wrote, but I will repeat more. I would really like to ask Lord Vader why he wants to catch Luke Skywalker so much if his father Anakin Skywalker and not Darth Vader? My Lord had been trying to sit on two mental chairs for so many years.

Darth Vader - this is just a new taken name, one might say, a nickname. For example, I'm not Merlyn Emerald in my life (unfortunately!). We are all here under our nicknames, but this does not mean that we have a split personality, hmm?

 

You folks should check out Grey Jedi.

 

What an interesting discussion going on here! I think, at this point, Vader´s philosophy is "why should anyone be spared, if I wasn't?". Does he approves slavery? probably not, but he is not going around deeply caring about all those poor sentients. If it serves the purpose of his Empire, then so be it.

Also, I think the concept of revenge and the ones of justice, evenness, balance, etc, are not necessarily the same. To seek revenge is a very Sith thing to do, but not seeking it doesn't necessarily means that one won't do anything about the offense or the offender. It only means one doesn't feel entitled to do whatever one wants because of it...

So interesting a discussion, I was forgetting why I came here in the first place! I wanted to know your opinions about Fallen Order, for the ones that knows how the story goes. I won't spoil anything, but obviously if I'm here you already know it could have something to do with our Dark Lord!

Spoiler

He shows up in it, and he is terrifying!

 

Oh no, now I have to go on youtube searching for a stream about the game.

Also, a question I'm pondering right now. Just how far would Vader go if he wanted to heal his body? The answer is probably almost infinitely far. But would he say sacrifice one of his children for it? How far would he go?

 

*nervously ran to YouTube*

Now I am tormented by this question. Damn it... Indeed, if the murder of Luke would completely heal Vader... would he kill his son, part of Padme? Ouch...

The worst thing is that I can’t give an exact answer.
But inclined to believe that he would not kill.

 

I'm playing Fallen Order now and can't wait to get to the Vader part. For what I've heard he's bloody terrifying in it, once again proving new canon has done a bang up job of Vader's depictions.

 

Eeeeeeee!!!