CT What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

Yep. All she said was, "If I could do it again, Hermione and Harry would get together." Didn't do it.

 

You guys do have to respect that this is Lucas' creations. Franchises are not always democratic like that. It may be a blow to the fans, but ultimately it is/was George Lucas'. Although, I would not mind seeing an OT collection without any alterations.

I personally don't mind the replacement at all, but that's partially due to me being born in this generation of prequels. I think it's a little bit disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw, but it does make sense (to the audience).

 

But neither did Lucas change any major plot point like that either.

 

The only major thing JK Rowling changed from what I remember is the order of how James and Lily Potter came out of Voldemort's wand in the Graveyard in GOF. Originally it was James and then Lily. But as the wand was going in reverse order of the people Voldemort killed, Lily should come out first and then James.

 

Seeing as we never see Anakin wearing that style of Jedi robes, did he decide to open up his wardrobe closet in the Netherworld of the Force and slip those on before manifesting on Endor, or did he wear that outfit at a certain time that wasn't portrayed in the movies?

 

Should've gone to specsavers

 

Threads like these make me all the more grateful for Harmy.

 

Obi-wan never turned evil. Nor Yoda. That's why they are old. Anakin became evil and effectively "died", until Luke was able to resurrect Anakin.

 

Which he did when Anakin/Vader killed the Emperor. Anakin was himself at the end, when Luke removed his mask.

The Dark Side is not like Parallax.

 

Actually, if Lucas wanted that way, he can make it that way.

"This little scene where he burns his father's body, it wasn't originally in the script. But I decided it gave more closure in terms of Luke's relationship to his father, letting go of his father. Even though later on, as we get to the end of the movie, as he joins the Force, he was able to retain his original identity, it's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda, who learnt how to do that: how to join the Force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his 'identity as he was when he died as Anakin Skywalker.'"

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

"In addition to the Zen-like Force that "surrounds us and penetrates us...(and) binds the galaxy together," as Obi-wan tells Luke, another Eastern religious element can be found in Vader's resemblance to demons that, in the Buddhist tradition, were at one time human and, through the actions of Buddha or his followers, are freed from their demonic state.

They usually wind up dying and through death are released from their demonic state. Again, that's a parallel to Vader, who is only freed at the point of his death."

--Shanti Fader, USA Today article and "Star Wars And Philosophy."

For the shot in which Luke Skywalker sees his father appear as a spirit in the company of Yoda and Obi-Wan, Hayden Christensen has been inserted in place of Sebastian Shaw. Following a brief discussion, Lucas confirms that he does not want to age Christensen, explaining that Anakin has reverted to who he was when he went over to the dark side.

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.

"[Hayden in ROTJ] was added because it was a way of finishing off the series. The idea was that [Anakin's] inner person would go back to where we left off when it turned to the dark side -- when [Anakin] got burned up and everything, but before [he] got burned up. So when [he] comes back to the good side of the Force, that it's [his] FORMER PERSONA that survives NOT the DARTH VADER PERSONA."

--George Lucas AOL interview, 2005.

"I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The “phantom menace” refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader—also Anakin."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine interview, 1999.

 

Just because Lucas said it, does not mean we cannot dislike it and call him out for it.

 

The "Hayden shot" is akin to breaking the fourth wall to me. It is such a hand-held nod to the audience that it takes away from the scene narrative- which is Luke's POV.

I recently introduced SW to a co-worker and we watched the OT (certainly not going to introduce SW with TPM!). The shot of HC was jarring and awkward. She knew who he was supposed to be but there was a 'who the hell is that?' moment. This is the same argument against adding the Vader "Nooooo!"- it is clearly obvious what is happening without being teat-fed the on-screen action. I was five years old when ROTJ came out and I understood exactly why Vader picked up the Emperor and I knew exactly who Shaw was supposed to be at the end of the movie. I feel kind of embarrassed for the movies that these moments are spoon-fed now.

 

im more bothered by the really "what were they thinking" changes point in case vader"NOOOOOO" in the same movie completely ruined the gravity of that scene and honestly is kind of very patronizing,young anakin kind made sense in a the perspective of the saga as a whole..but they could have given the poor dude some actual direction so he didnt look like he wanna rape luke

(also must be really awkward when he gets to Jedi heaven and meets the younglings...""uhm hi")

 

I never said otherwise. But let's not pretend that he couldn't expand upon his ideas or make changes. Nothing in the OT said what it was like to turn evil. We only saw the finished result. We didn't see the decline.

 

I've seen both points of view argued fairly convincingly on different versions of this thread. For me, though, it comes down to visuals. This is a purely visual scene. There's no dialogue, no explanation of any sort going on. When I look at Shaw I see on older guy, experienced, scarred a bit by what he's gone through, but surviving it and coming out the other side in tact. When I seen Christensen I see the same character who appeared before all of that experience and learning took place. For me, it's a far less powerful visual image.

 

What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

For me nothing.

 

Nothing really.​

He just looks hot, as usual.​

​

 

This.

 

It just doesn't make sense to me. How would Luke even know what his father looked like at a young age? I have a lot of respect towards Hayden as an actor but replacing him as the force ghost was one of the worst moves Lucas did.

 

This explains it in a funny way.

 

Apparently he has bad breath...that's relevant right?

I think what bothers me about Lucas and these changes he made is this; he took something he had made and sold as a completed piece of art, then took that art and changed it after so many had fallen in love with the original piece. To me its like Leonardo decided to return to Mona after she was done and for no real good reason paint a moustache on her. Obviously I am talking about Leonardo the ninja turtle, I would never inmy right mind compare Lucas to da Vinci....or would I...

 

The main problem with changing the figure from Shaw's to Christensen's is that is changes what really transpired at the end of ROTJ. The main question is: who died on the Death Star after seeing Luke with his "own eyes" ? Vader or Anakin? The answer to that question goes to the heart of Anakin's redemption. By using Christensen's figure, the message seems to be that Vader died and that the last "good" manifestation of Anakin (pre-turn) became a Force Ghost. This would defeat the purpose of the redemption story. Anakin destroyed Vader just as Vader had destroyed him. He did what no one else had done before: come back from the Dark Side. Remember, Yoda said that "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" (ESB). This would indicate that the common wisdom was that redemption is simply not possible. Obi-Wan seems to reinforce that view in ROTJ. Yet, Luke decides to ignore all that and fight for his father's soul!. AND HE SUCCEEDED. It was Anakin Skywalker who destroyed the Emperor and who spoke to Luke right before dying. If Anakin was redeemed before dying, then Anakin's figure AT THAT MOMENT should be the one that becomes a Fore Ghost. By placing younger Anakin's face, it means that Anakin was gone forever in ROTS and that Vader's actions on the Death Star were not Anakin's. This cannot be so, and that's why the change is so wrong.

 

Doesn't bother me at all, as well.

 

Anakin's personality had lain dormant inside Vader for 23 years. It didn't go through 23 years of aging and emotional maturation. Those 23 years were completely lost to Darth Vader. In Episode VI, Anakin makes a decision to become the man he used to be. If you want to get pedantic, Anakin only aged a few minutes since his Episode III appearance. His epiphany was about realizing that he'd been wasting his life on a lie, and that the only way to fix things was to accept that all the time and effort he sunk into his life as Vader meant absolutely nothing. It was a meaningless void. Becoming Vader wasn't a learning experience for him--it was a living death. Anakin died in Episode III, and in Episode VI Luke resurrected him.

Anakin's figure "at that moment" was still scarred and deformed. His ghost wasn't. So your interpretation can't be correct. There was always a reversion to his former persona.

 

Interesting perceptions but I believe the whole point is Anakin IS Vader and never died until RotJ he simply was lost and his son's love and faith beckoned him to acknowledge this. BTW, it was the Force that redeemed him, not Luke.