main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

Discussion What We Do in the Dark Side: Taika Waititi to direct/co-write new Star Wars film

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by PymParticles , May 4, 2020.

  1. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Yes, but Waititi also said in interviews that he understands the need to adapt his approach to the storytelling mode of Star Wars (which is more earnest than meta), so I don’t worry at all. Plus, I find the Waititi-Star Wars mix invigorating. While I found the RJ-Star Wars mix flattening and deadening.
     
  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I by no means believe Waititi to be a bad filmmaker/writer, and I'm sure he has the potential to do something interesting with any genre... and I certainly don't think he'll produce anything any worse than the ST (IMHO). However, I'd rather a filmmaker (if they are given the writing and directing job) to be allowed to follow their natural instincts, rather than to 'adapt' or pull back from their own style. So for me, I think there's a natural conflict of style in this scenario. This may result in a better Star Wars film for it (I hope it does)... but I certainly don't think Waititi/Star Wars is a dead cert match made in heaven... (as I originally, and mistakingly, thought about Johnson). But that's just an opinion... and as with most, is as likely to be off base as on...
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  3. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    And yet, he opened his Mandalorian episode with a long running and completely meta gag. It's funny only because of the real world joke about stormtroopers being bad shots.

    And he's not the only one who keeps going to that well. If I never see another meta, self aware, 4th wall breaking, wink-wink, "Get it? The stormtroopers are bad shots. Har, har!" joke in Star Wars, I'll die so happy I'll become one with the Force.
     
    Riv_Shiel, EHT and Darth PJ like this.
  4. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I think any one using strom troopers is guilty of that, even Filoni on Rebels and Rogue One.
     
  5. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yes, that was my point.
     
    Riv_Shiel likes this.
  6. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    have you not watched the Mandalorian? Taika directed the last episode
     
  7. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Well yeah then it won't stop, maybe in movies it won't be on the nose.
     
  8. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    There was a brief moment where they fired their blasters. And Taika seemed to turn the joke on its head by raising the question that perhaps their standard issue blasters are low quality. The rest of the scene, however, wasn’t commentary on stormtroopers as bad shots. The humor centered on the boredom of being a minion (and the consequent fascination one of them has with the Child), the darkly comic normalcy of Imperial brutality, and IG-11’s flip from politeness to ruthlessness. The blaster gag was short and quick. So I stand by it. Waititi got his DNA in the episode, but he reigned it in. And, IMO, gave us one of the most purely joyful and weird scenes in Star Wars, with IG-11 and Baby Yoda on the speeder bike wreaking havoc. The opening may not have been to everyone’s liking, but it wasn’t the whole episode.
     
    Vader Bob and EHT like this.
  9. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    We clearly have different definitions of brief, short, and quick. And my point was that it was meta, and it was. That's all. I enjoyed the episode, I'm just not all in on the guy. I have issues with his style, as I've seen it so far, which is admittedly very little. I've only seen Ragnarok (which I hated) and his Mando ep., which I liked, despite noticing some of his humor instincts (which I don't like, so far).
     
  10. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I think it's also worth bringing up co-writer Krysty Wilson-Cairns, whose highest profile credit so far was co-writing 1917. And she's also credited as a writer on Edgar Wright's upcoming Last Night in Soho. So how her approach meshes with Waititi's will be anyone's guess, but I'm guessing there could be more than a few tongues in cheeks.
     
  11. PymParticles

    PymParticles Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    I would definitely recommend checking out What We Do In the Shadows, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, and Jojo Rabbit. Both Thor: Ragnarok and his Mando ep. are him working off of other people's scripts and applying his own voice to them, and I find it lands differently when he's responsible for the beating heart at the center of the film as well.
     
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  12. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Thor: Ragnarok, whilst enjoyable enough, was totally forgettable IMO, and suffered from the same deficiencies as many a big budget action film. I have to say that I didn't particularly like JoJo Rabbit. I thought it was very overrated for what it was (IMO). However, on the positive side, I do think Waititi strives to find the emotional beats of a story and he does attempt to keep 'character' at the heart of his films (from what I've seen) i.e. he's not fixated on plot twists, mystery boxes and big set pieces, but the smaller emotional elements.
     
    PymParticles likes this.
  13. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2014
    I am aware of it, yep. The thing is, what Taika did what direct an episode written by Favreau for a TV show how was entirely created by Favreau as well. So it does not serve as the best indication of his capabilities IMO.
     
    Darth PJ likes this.
  14. PymParticles

    PymParticles Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    I definitely agree with the latter point of your post. That's a good breakdown of Waititi's overall narrative approach.
     
    Darth PJ likes this.
  15. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I agree with that. I think The Mandalorian is more testament to the writing, and general approach, than it is to what the individual directors bring to proceedings per se. If anything, The Mandalorian shows the strength of that consistent/overarching approach, rather than each director shaping their own show from top to bottom. Mando is the model they should take forward into the films... they shouldn't (IMHO) be letting individual filmmakers do what they want (assuming that is the case that is).
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  16. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    But I think the Mandalorian shows exactly that, that Taika is willing to work with others. He brings his directorial skills and own ideas but he’s also perfectly fine with just going with whatever story is given to him to direct.

    Now, given we know very little about this project, we do know that in addition to being the director he is co-writing with Krysty Wilson-Cairns. So already we know he’s going to be working with someone else in terms of writing and crafting a story together.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  17. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    If Jeff Goldblum is cast in this, then it instantly catapults to becoming my most anticipated film of all time.
     
    Siphonophore and Bor Mullet like this.
  18. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I think he does, as well, but Ragnarok also showed that he's consistently willing to sacrifice dramatic tension for a punchline. With the exception of Odin's final moments with his sons, there wasn't a single dramatic moment in that film that wasn't broken up with a gag. It seemed almost compulsive. Like he was afraid of letting the audience feel the dramatic weight of....anything. I literally threw up my hands in disgust when the "Rock Guy" made a joke during Asgard's destruction. I don't know if all of his films have this issue. The Mando ep had it to a much lesser degree, but it was still there. I'm not sure if that's because of Favreau or because Taika showed restraint. I hope it's the latter. I keep hearing his other films are really great, but after Ragnarok the silliness of their trailers gave me flashbacks of cringing.

    I hope I'm wrong, and he'll make great Star Wars. I'll just be skeptical until I see some footage and find out more about what they're planning.
     
  19. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    As we know, that was the same approach with the ST... and it split fandom... so I don’t think it’s a recipe for success. They need to have (IMHO) a single person at the top, whom has creative control over ALL content, specifically the films (not Kennedy), in order they regain some consistency of quality.

    I agree with all that. As I say above, it hinges on what Lucasfilms strategy with all this is. If Waititi is working closely to a rigid brief, and a strict strategy for Star Wars, then that may be the thing that curbs his more negative traits and accentuates the positive. If he’s just been given free reign to do any Star Wars movie he chooses, we can probably expect it to be contentious and split audiences.
     
  20. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Good! If art isn't doing that then something is very wrong.
     
  21. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Oh, balderdash. This idea that good art means half the people hate it is ridiculous, and always spouted by those who like the art in question, because it makes them feel superior. Nobody who dislikes a piece of art espouses the virtues of the art for being half hated. Shall we list some of the great films that are almost universally loved and disprove the theory above? Just a small list.

    1. The OT
    2. The Indiana Jones OT
    3. LOTR
    4. The Godfather
    5. Gone With The Wind
    6. Citizen Kane
    7. Spartacus
    8. Seven Samurai
    9. Alien
    10. Jaws
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  22. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Yeah but if the answer is for Taika to be reined in then why hire him, get someone who'll toe the line. You get a director for them otherwise why hire them.

    Plus honestly I have a low opinion of Star Wars fans in general so I tend to think anything they don't like is normally a good thing.

    Also the OT was liked over time....Empire was polarizing and Jedi was touted as the weakest and worst for years...It's not until this generation started growing up did Jedi become so loved.

    The OT only got as beloved as it did because of Nostalgia and time.

    The other movies....IDK but when it comes to Star Wars...A New Hope was loved, Empire was polarizing and Jedi was panned to people thought it was ok until later years
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    Fredrik Vallestrand likes this.
  23. Huncrweo

    Huncrweo Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Equally, I could list plenty of divisive movies that are held up as masterpieces by many. The Tree of Life, Heathers, Drive, anything by David Lynch, anything by Lars von Trier, anything by Darren Aronofsky. And that's without considering the many movies that were divisive upon release but later became well-liked: Blade Runner, Fight Club, American Psycho. Even The Empire Strikes Back wasn't universally loved upon release. You've mentioned every single one of those movies with at least 17 years of hindsight; a lot of them were not nearly as well-regarded when they first released. Universally-loved movies are great and all, but for my money there's nothing quite as exciting as hearing that a movie is vehemently hated by some, and loved by others with an almost-religious passion. Good films don't have to divide people, but a lot of them do (including, ironically, many of the movies you mentioned), mainly because they try new and innovative things that aren't going to work for everyone.

    I don't think Waititi's Star Wars is going to be especially divisive with general audiences; he has a style and it's proven popular on several occasions. The fandom will inevitably be divided on it, because SW fans seem to always default to disliking whatever the new thing is, while expressing rabid nostalgia for the thing that they were slagging off mercilessly five years earlier.
     
    Fredrik Vallestrand likes this.
  24. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    So I get where you're coming from, but I'm not sure that's entirely the same thing. What Lucasfilm need to do is have a firm and detailed strategy for where they want the films to go, and then they hire filmmakers whose sensibilities align to that approach. For example, Lucas didn't hire Kershner to simply do his own thing. He hired him because he knew the direct sequel to Star Wars had to be a more character driven and dramatic film... something he thought that was more suited to Kershner's strengths.

    Also, please can we refrain from the revisionism of stating The Empire Strikes Back was polarising? It was no such thing. It was a hugely popular and successful film. Sure, there were some that thought it wasn't as 'fun' as the original, and the format of the film (cliffhanger ending etc.) wasn't something common in films of that period... but seriously, 50% of the audiences weren't walking out of TESB thinking 'God that was awful'. Same goes for ROTJ. It is, in my opinion anyway, the weakest of the originals, but it was still head and shoulders above its competition... and even when the creative juices were running low, Lucas still managed to push the form with ROTJ. Pretty much every action blockbuster that followed (even to this day) can be traced back to how ROTJ (and Temple of Doom) created a template for 'action' films.
     
  25. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    You could but you'd be missing my point. This is the specific claim I was refuting.
    Which is not correct. Sometimes good art is divisive, and sometimes it is not. It's not a prerequisite. Again, that is a snobbish attitude, espoused by those who like to feel superior for liking something that is controversial to the GA.
    Another example that illustrates my point. But, it's difficult to debate someone who won't come down from such lofty heights.
     
    ladygrey45 and Darth PJ like this.