ST What's in the book? Journal of the Whills?

The Jedi were not perfect, but neither were the Sith. Both were brought down, in part, by their own weaknesses.

 

Now that I do agree with.

 

Close...but I would go with:

First comes the day (Old Republic, Good Jedi)


Then comes the Night (The Empire, the dark times)


After the darkness (Defeat of the Empire, First Order, Luke's failure and exile)


Shines through the Light: (Rey, ushering in a new era of Good Jedi to come)


The difference they say, is only made right, (the constant struggle between good vs evil, Jedi vs Sith, tit-for-tat never ending cycle will be different this time)



By resolving of grey through refined Jedi sight (Luke learning that the only way to move forward is to unlearn what you have learned and try something new)


And I'm leaning towards Luke changing Kylo (finally) and it will be both him and Rey who go up against Snoke, but with different methods, knowledge, etc.


What if Luke and Rey reform the Jedi into...the Whills. (who were perhaps an unknown ancient Force group, long since destroyed, who had a more balanced pure knowing of the Force)

 

DarkGingerJedi Sounds good to me!

I gotta ask, what are the Whills really? Are they an aliens species or Force users with different take on the Force than the Jedi or something else?

 

As far as I'm aware they are an ancient culture with an extremely strong connection to the force, and an understanding of the intricacies of the force, like Balance and the will of the force, things like that. They have kept an ancient book called "The Journal of the Whills" to store this information for future generations. That's my understanding anyway I'm sure someone else will be able to describe it better.

 

Sure would be cool if the "author" or at least someone related to writing it is named to be either one of these 2 distinguished gentlemen...

Jedi MasterVodo-Siosk Baas

or

Jedi Master Bodo Baas

The answer is: No one but George Lucas knows -- and even he might not

 

I like this.

 

I take them to be a very rare alien species based on what Lucas thought of them originally. I think he even referred to them as immortal beings originally but in an unused part of the script for Ep3 I think it says a Shaman of the Whills had found the secret to eternal consciousness and taught it to Qui Gon which would imply Lucas changed it to where their physical bodies at least weren't immortal but I don't see why that would change them from being some very rare group of aliens with a vast knowledge of the force. If they were a group of believers and not an actual alien race it would be hard to explain why they haven't seemed to be encountered by hardly anyone except Qui Gon that we know of. I guess my take right now on them if Disney doesn't go in a new direction is they are really in tune with the force but have a look on things more like Bendu and think it isn't their job to directly intervene in the Galaxy's conflicts etc. Like Bendu they probably wouldn't mind teaching a Jedi something here and there like he did but probably wouldn't help a Sith learn something that they knew he could use for evil.

 

Does anyone else who watched Stargate the TV series sense there could be a similarity between the Whils and the 'Ancients' from Stargate?

In SG, the Anicents were an old species who formed the Stargate network. They reached such a point of knowledge they ascended to another form of existance. They watch the lower form but they will not interfere, even in the worst of times. You have to work out how to ascend yourself. Some of the 'Ancients' break the rules and help 'lower beings' ascend. There's a lot more going on but that's the basic gist of it.

I just wonder if the Whills are similar, a race that reached such knowledge of the force they were able to 'ascend' to another level of exsistence. The Journal is the written knowledge they left behind. Simple as that. Could even argue 'force ghosts' are Jedi who managed to learn how to ascend and join the Whills.

 

One of Yoda's greatest statements is - "You must unlearn what you have learned."

 

They didn't accept the Sith had returned up front at first mention, but by the time they were cremating Qui Gon they were wondering which of the Sith had died, the master or the apprentice. And yes, they were blind to Palpatine's true identity because "the dark side has clouded their vision". They were waiting for the Sith to engage them perhaps the way they had when Darth Bane invoked the rule of two. They didn't expect the Sith to infiltrate the Republic and take command of it from within.

 

Didn't the book on Ep 2 or Ep 3 have Yoda suspecting that it was Mas Amedda that might be the Sith Lord they were looking for and he thought he might be controlling Palpatine but he couldn't be sure because the darkside was clouding everything so much? I thought I remember reading something like that.

 

The Jedi from the old Galactic Republic aren't really germane. As we left the story in ROTJ, Luke was the Jedi. He defeated evil with his compassion, going against the will of the "old guard" Jedi of Obi-Wan and Yoda.

The Jedi at this point are selfless, peaceful, humble. There's no political aspect. Luke wasn't around to see the old Jedi order, and he follows his own instinct at the end of ROTJ as to how a Jedi should be. So why is it time for the Jedi to end? Luke did not fear the dark side like Yoda and Obi-Wan. he went straight to the centre of it to bring his father back. He tapped into the dark side at times in ROTJ - he wasn't above threatening Jabba with death if he didn't give up Han, using a bit of Force choke or even arguably using his anger during his fight with Vader.

It's not about shutting up shop on the Jedi because they used to be institutionalised puppets of the Republic. Perhaps the balance in the Force is no light or dark as the existence of each creates the other in an attempt to bring about equilibrium. You can't have a balance because it always becomes unbalanced - recent history has seen the Jedi almost crushed to extinction twice. Luke is trying to break the cycle, but does he discover how to do that in the Journal of the Whills, or does the discovery of the Journal lead Luke back to the light / dark fight?

 

lawton That's really interesting. I was always puzzled that Yoda tells Anakin that death is natural, he should let it go, be happy for those who return to the Force, and then proceeds to train how to become immortal! The heck?

Master Jedi Macen Arren Thank you! It would make sense that Rey and Luke found that journal cause there's been a set up for the Whills in RO and ancillary sources.

 

Does anyone has an idea what the red letters say?

 

They had there suspicions, but generally didn't really know much. If they studied the Darkside they may have realized what it was capable of, like Palpatine being able to cloak his true appearance things like that. I'm not saying the Jedi would have won the day but they may have had more knowledge to what was going on and what they where up against.

Anyways back to the Journal, I hope they approach it from what most people are discussing in this thread about it being ancient text or Symbols. I really like the idea that Luke finds out the Jedi have fallen dramatically from there true path and he now needs to change things and take on a different approach with Rey. Maybe that's what Daisy and Mark meant at celebration when they spoke about how there characters where developing and how at first they where a bit apprehensive but they went along with it because they trusted Rian.

Maybe that's what Luke refers to by saying "The Jedi must end", he means their philosophies and teachings have to change. Luke walked the Darkside on numerous occasions through the originals, maybe with the discovery of The Journal of the Whills he realizes that both light and dark must be understood to truly understand the force as a whole, and maybe with that knowledge that's what Luke teaches Rey. The trailer has Rey at the beginning falling to her knees looking scared and really struggling, Luke is saying "Breathe". Maybe he is giving her a dark side vision/test (Like his on Dagobah). Maybe Luke's new way is to teach both light and dark side but also how to master and control your emotions to become truly enlightened.

 

No idea, it doesn't seem to be Aurebesh. However, whilst watching R1 over the weekend, I did notice that the kyber crystal that the camera focuses on as the Partisans steal the crystals from the Imperial hover tank is inscribed with a symbol that closely resembles the upside down trident-like symbol shown here. Not sure if this is significant.

 

My little theory on this:

1. Let's suppose that the Jedi Council of the PT didn't know the location of Ach-to. That's quite plausible, because it seems that someone had tried to hide this planet, since the navigation chart didn't match anything in the archives (as said in TFA).
If it was the Jedi Council who had tried to hide Ach-to then Yoda would have propably exiled himself to that planet instead of Dagobah. Although it's posible that Yoda prefered Dagobah because of root cooking...

Therefore, if the books had stayed all the time inside the tree of Ach-to, their lore would be quite forgotten.


2. If the Jedi Council had no idea of those books, who could know about them? Possibly nobody, but there is a place where somebody could have found a clue: the Temple in Jeddah.
Perhaps that's where Lor San Tekka lived before his travels. After the occupation of Jeddah he might have fled to join the Rebel Alliance (he was an old ally) and also to try and discover the location of the first Jedi Temple, helped by something he might have learn in Jeddah.

3. It is not Lor San Tekka who has discovered Luke's whereabouts. In fact, he was who told Luke where he could find the old Temple and kept his secret for a while.

4. However he might have disagreed with Luke about his interpretation of the books lore. So, seeing that Luke has decided to retire in order to end the times of the Jedi, he decides it is time to discover Luke's whereabouts to Leia to try to make him come back to reestablish balance in the Force.

-Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force.

 

I'm currently thinking that it could be related to the Chosen One prophecy.
KK talked about the possibility of doing more than IX Skywalker movies but stated that Lucas only had 9 movies. And more than numerous times over the years, she talks about SW as if they were still following what he left behind.

given that I would feel like it would make sense if it's a continuation of that theme. Which we saw in both the PT and the OT (as well as TCW).

just how they talk about ST and Legacy, this could mean the ST is also following the Legacy of the Chosen One prophecy.

So could this book be where the original prophecy was written?
could the prophecy be more than just eliminating the Sith?

bringing back the talk of balance is something that would also fit the prophecy. It could be that this is how Snoke controlled Kylo, by convincing him that HE is the "heir" of the Prophecy and Anakin/Vader.

 

May be the "Keeper of the Whills" is also the 'keeper of the prophecy' and when Anakin failed to fully fulfil the prophecy because of the crimes he committed it falls on Luke to fulfil the prophecy through something or someone else.

 

Just noticed: It looks like whoever is touching that jedi book, has a leather glove on his right hand. Never even saw the hand until now. lol

 

you already have Anakin only supposedly accomplishing the prophecy because of Luke if it wasn't for Luke he would never have destroyed the Sith.

the prophecy also seems linked to Mortis, the father, son, daughter.
and it's a bit too convenient that we have POSSIBLY the same things in Luke, Rey, Kylo.....

what if the prophecy extends to Anakin's descendants?

 

"It was said that you would DESTROY the Sith , not join them! Bring BALANCE to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"

"A prophecy that MISREAD ,could have been."

"I see through the LIES of the Jedi. I do not fear the Dark Side as you do."

..all PT quotes that, perhaps, could have new meaning. If the Jedi strayed from their right path many centuries / millennia ago, then it's certainly possible they strayed from the Prophecy as well. If the Jedi view and use of the force was, shall we say, "subjugated" at some point by some Jedi Master or Masters to a doctrine that followed their will rather than the Will of the Force, it's very easy to believe the Prophecy was altered as well to fit their needs, namely the destruction of the Sith, their mortal enemies. A Chosen One created to bring balance to the Force may have had nothing to do with the Sith at all. Because it seems that even thought the Sith were destroyed, "balance" still hasn't been achieved, based upon what's going on in the Galaxy. Perhaps ... perhaps there is some truth when Anakin says he sees through the lies of the Jedi, and was correct not to fear the Dark Side. The key may be to not fear it, but to control it. The flaw of the Sith was to give themselves wholly to the Dark Side. The flaw of the Jedi may have to completely embrace the light at the expense of all else. The truth may be embrace the Light, but do not fear the Dark.

Now i know in Lucas' vision, Anakin fulfilled the Prophecy when he killed Sidious and turned back to the light. That "balance" was achieved. But this is post-Lucas nu-canon. Perhaps the Prophecy was never truly fulfilled. Not yet.

 

There is a part of me that feels like Destroying the Sith part of the prophecy sounds a bit too much like propaganda. In that the Jedi at some point maybe misinterpreted or altered the real prophecy so that it would read, that one will come and destroy the Sith. A bit too convenient no? That at that time their mortal enemies were the Sith.

maybe the real prophecy was about something more than just the Sith but they believed or wanted it to apply to the Sith.

 

Yes, exactly! Maybe something like bringing balance to the Force will thwart evil,or something. Hence, the Chosen One will remove evil ... The sith are our enemies and evil! Therefore the Chosen One will destroy the Sith! Yes!

In reality, it meant recognizing and governing the darkness within ourselves, and therefore the darkness within the Force, preventing Force users from acting out of rage and allowing them to understand and recognize the emotions and darkness within themselves as a way to control it, rather than suppress it and allow it to fester until it finally explodes, resulting in evil deeds and actions.