What's your impression of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader now?

Id say on the same level of power, maybe greater. Luke and Vader were fighting as equals.


...just less skilled in the ways of the force. Luke had compassion for his final fight, thats all he needed.

 

Siddious / Palpatine:
A very evil man. Filled with hatred and contempt towards almost everything and especially towards the Jedi.


Darth Vader:
A scary and very tragic figure, who was under a lot of presure from both Jedi and Sith. A man who was willing to sacrifice everything for the ones he loved and gambled his very soul in a game he lost.

 

That makes sense, one would assume Vader has more experience with the force, but like you said Luke had the "passion" to beat him. It would seem when he beat Vader it was also through anger.

 

Yep! Like i said, they were equals, but the anger broke the stale-mate.

Lukes potential power would crush even Sidious, and rivaled Anakins. Thats why Sidious wanted him.

Once Luke went nuts on him, Vader never stood a chance. This boy was everything Anakin COULD have been. A force twice the power of Yoda/Sidious.

 

Doesn't change my opinion of either of them. I still think they're both awesome.

 

Age was never really a factor for Sidious though, even if he was 120, in ROTS it looks like he jumps on his lightsaber like a pogo stick.

 

My favorite Sidious line will always be, "Use your aggressive feelings, boy."


I think the movie leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not it's Palpatine's real face. Clearly, it IS the lightning that is transforming his face, no doubt about that, but it could possibly be transforming his face by draining the life out of the face he had artificially sustained all those years.

He does, after all, have permanent yellow eyes after it just like Darth Maul. Palpatine never has yellow eyes once, so that at least shows that the face of "Palpatine" is a deception on some level - even if it's just the eyes.


My impression of their relationship has changed considerably now that we know the nature of how Darth Sidious pulled Anakin up from the black sands and put him into the suit. I always saw Sidious and Vader as being naturally evil, but now I see that there is a legitimate relationship between the two.

You know what has REALLY changed? The level of deception between the two. Yes, Sidious does care on some level for Vader. He calls him his "friend" and is pleased with his loyalty, but when Luke comes around, there's a new depth to the way he just tosses Vader aside and goes right in for the kill with Luke. He went through all that trouble to save Vader, only to toss him away when a better version came around.

Also, now I see that Vader expresses gratitude on some level to Sidious, despite being ultimately betrayed by him. The Emperor is the ONLY thing Vader has left after Mustafar, and that's why he sticks around him even after he failed to save Padme.

 

Stuff I dislike/don't get:

What is this "unmasking" bit??? What, is Palpatine supposed to be wearing a mask like in Mission Impossible or something?? For something like 20 years???

Come ON.

In the RotS novel it says, as Palpy gets fried by his own Force lightning, that his actual skin "melted and flowed like oil" and from then on he is forever transformed.

Doesn't sound like a mask to me. After all, if he was wearing some disguise, couldn't he/wouldn't he just go get another one???

And another thing: When he was interviewed for TPM, Ian said in several articles that Palpatine was actually YOUNGER than Ian's own age at the time (Ian was about 53). Now he's saying Palpatine is 120-130??? And everytime I hear this figure it gets higher and higher!

So either Palpatine is what he should be according to the age of Luke in RotJ, around 80-85, or Palpatine really does have access to some way to prolong life, because humans don't LIVE to be 130!!!

 

Darth Vader = Puppet

Darth Sidious = Puppet Master

Make no mistake. Sidious is powerful and dangerous. Was he in a close duel? Sure. So what? What if he was because he wanted to be?

I mean he seems to be in totall control. So I'd say he's very dangerous.

Vader is more fragile than I thought. But, I do buy into the fact that his hate and fear has made him strong. But, he does almost come off as a tragic hero.

It just took sometime for him to fill out the hero part.

 

Well if you go with EU, he has a bunch of clones to prolong life, but sometimes EU isn't exactly canon ya know?

 

He does, after all, have permanent yellow eyes after it just like Darth Maul. Palpatine never has yellow eyes once, so that at least shows that the face of "Palpatine" is a deception on some level - even if it's just the eyes.

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Not just the eyes, but the rotten sith teeth as well.

Its a mask AND a disfigurment, but not from lightning. Its from years of dark side learning and it comes out clear as day in the Windu scene perectly to show the nature of the dark side will consume a man.

Anakin has the eyes after being a sith for a whole 2 hours, and he was never once hit by lightning, unless the Dooku hit took along time to register.

The lightning makes the vile disfigurement/mask come out after years of being hidden, but its not the cause of it.

 

After seeing the PT, I see Palpatine as the heartless and evil bastard that we've known since ROTJ. Truly evil. Pure evil.

Vader, I see him as the tragic figure. That he had everything that he could've hoped for, but was not satisfied. Someone who definately needed help dealing with his attachment issues.

 

In the RotS novel it says, as Palpy gets fried by his own Force lightning, that his actual skin "melted and flowed like oil" and from then on he is forever transformed.

The novel also has Sidious saying, "And so the mask becomes the man," he sighed with a hint of philosophical melancholy. "I shall miss the face of Palpatine, I think; but for our purpose, the face of Sidious will serve. Yes, it will serve."


Admittedly, it is up for interpretation. I'm not saying that the lightning doesn't disfigure Palpatine, but the nature of the disfigurement could be an unveiling. It is a mythological motif for evil sorcerers to look perticularly rancid due to their use of unnatural abilities causing them to look less human. And, it is also another motif to have the face of evil hidden behind the face of an angel.

I, personally, like it because I like rewatching all those earlier prequel scenes with Palpatine smiling in his office with Yoda and Padme and Mace - and specifically the closing shot of smiling Palpatine in TPM - and I just like to see ROTJ Emperor standing right up there with gnarled teeth cackling maniacally.

You don't get that same effect if he never had those yellow eyes, gnarled teeth and ugly face.

 

Age does play a factor. Look at the Obi-Wan and Vader duel in Episode four, compared to thier full fledged duel on Mustafar. I don't look at them as damaged goods, but old men with experience in battle. Same goes for the Palp's.

 

The way i see it both Sidious and Dooku had them, but they would hide them. Maul didnt give a rats ass, but Anakin did, as they go away when he sees Padme.

Maul was not more corrupted in his twenty years of life then Sidious, it stands to reason that if Maul already had the eyes and teeth, his master would have the eyes, teeth, and face.

Its a mask/disfigurment due to the wraping oneself in the darkside. Maul would have probably been just as disfigured had he lived that long.


The really freaky part?

....imagine what Vader looked like under his helmet in Empire when he was evil. When we got to see his face, he was aready good again.

..imagine a yellow eyes, rotten toothed Vader with his witherd face. Its creepy.

 

Instead we get humpty-dumpty Vader.

 

So either Palpatine is what he should be according to the age of Luke in RotJ, around 80-85, or Palpatine really does have access to some way to prolong life, because humans don't LIVE to be 130!!!

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that in a galaxy with 25,000+ years of history and technological advancement, human life might be extended just a bit beyond ours. The oldest human whose birth documents can be authenticated was 122 when she died.

However, I don't think that's the case with Palpatine. I can't remember where I heard this, but apparently Lucas representatives said Palpatine is no older in RotS than McDiarmid was when filming. He was 59 during most of filming (he turned 60 on 8/11/04 if you're gonna get technical and include the pick-ups), and the movie takes place in 19 BBY, so going by that statement, Palpatine was born in 78 or 79 BBY, which is a little earlier than the most common dates of 82 or 84 BBY. This would make him anywhere from 81 to 83 when he dies (again, technicalities like when exactly in the year he was born and when RotJ took place, which I'm sure someone has figured out).

Or maybe it's just a movie. I forget.

 

I can do a pretty good Palpatine, base on the 'Everything that has come to pass' line from RotJ, but for a decent Vader, you need a voice changer or something.

LOL.

 

Sidious- More bad ass than ever


Vader-Severely weakened IMO

 

Emperor= pimp
Vader= broke down beeyotch

 

Sidious- Highly overrated

Vader- Same badass icon

 

Quite frankly I don't like how "everything came to pass". I still believe Sidious looks that way from the Dark Side not Force lightning. Luke, Anakin, Mace, and Yoda were all hit with it. I know I know. You're gonna counter with "But not in the face or as long!" Mace and Luke were clearly hit in the face, so drop it. Anyways, I also don't like that Darth Vader is actually weaker. I knew physically he was, but Force wise? Thats dumb. Its because of all of this Midichlorian BS.

Before you jump down my throat? I'm a BIG fan of the PT. Some mistakes have been made, but its still good. I was just adding MHO.

 

Impressions of Vader are easy. All you need is an empty pint glass.

Seriously, though, ROTS has made me curious about Palpatine/Sidious. I am curious about where he came from and what made him so absolutely evil. He is 100% evil, which seems strange to me because even the most evil people in history have some good in them, but this man doesn't seem to have any at all. How did he get to become a Sith Lord? Questions, I have many.

 

Yep! Like i said, they were equals, but the anger broke the stale-mate.

Lukes potential power would crush even Sidious, and rivaled Anakins. Thats why Sidious wanted him.

Once Luke went nuts on him, Vader never stood a chance. This boy was everything Anakin COULD have been. A force twice the power of Yoda/Sidious.

Tend to disagree with that. I think the biggest reason for Luke's win in ROTJ (and indeed his survival in ESB) is that at no point does Vader genuinely want to kill him. Indeed, by the time we get to the end of ROTJ, Vader is close to redemption and doesn't even want to hurt Luke.

I don't think Luke is super powerful in the Force, certainly not approaching Anakin's potential. Very strong in the Force, but not utterly exceptional like Anakin or Yoda.

 

The PT has pulled back the curtain on these characters and i have to say i'm less than impressed.The rise of Palpatine's character is quite interesting until he starts smoking crack in ROTS. Anakin/Vader was a total let down, largely thanks to not one, but two of the worst casting choices in the history of cinema. It's actually quite remarkable how Lucas and Biggart (or whatever the hell she's called) could make a total balls up of casting the character twice!