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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST What's your opinion on Sheev Palpatine coming back as the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Sep 8, 2020.

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Do you like the idea of them bringing him back as the main and final villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

  1. Love it, and I'm glad they brought him back

    36 vote(s)
    11.8%
  2. Hate it, and think that he should have remained dead

    172 vote(s)
    56.4%
  3. Have mixed feelings about it

    97 vote(s)
    31.8%
  1. Lord Exor

    Lord Exor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2019
    The saga isn't--and should never be--a comic book serialized in perpetuity with a rotating gallery of diverse rogues that need to be thwarted week after week, which is the context of the characters you're referencing. Palpatine himself cannot be cited as an example, as the story's structural shift toward the Emperor as the primary antagonist occured behind the scenes within a single sequel and without altering the dynamics of the narrative as presented.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  2. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    I certainly understand that sentiment, but can't personally agree.

    If Star Wars is to become an organic franchise that expands beyond the Skywalker Saga, that's great and I'm down for it, but the Skywalker Saga will probably always be the crown jewel - however blemished - of the whole thing. With that in mind, the Skywalker Saga's archvillain should sit at the summit of villainy for the franchise.

    Future Star Wars villains in future Star Wars works can be memorable, compelling, and formidable without rivaling the Emperor in terms of his in-universe status. Sith philosophy is predicated on the notion of superiority with respect to both cunning and power. Sidious, as "all the Sith" or (as the StarWars.com databank describes it) "a vessel for all the Sith's power" is the culmination of that order. He is and should forever remain the best at Sithiness. The smartest, the strongest, the most powerful and cunning, the most accomplished and successful. "Anything he can do, Sheev can do better" and all that.

    We had three feature-length films, a 7 season animated TV show, and a host of supplement fiction dedicated to telling the elaborate story of his triumph. Most villains, including the icons you listed, never get a triumph in a single story, let alone three blockbusters and a host of interconnecting fiction.

    It'd be like a new Star Wars movie giving us another messianic figure more important and powerful than Anakin. It'd just be weird and lazy and cheap and unearned. Anakin and Palpatine are Jesus and the Devil. To borrow that metaphor, we can, should, and probably will see stories involving angels and demons who are awesome and powerful and inspiring and terrifying in their own right, but these two must forever stand apart in my mind.
     
    jaimestarr likes this.
  3. mtt02263

    mtt02263 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2020
    Didn't Disney/LFL basically give us that with Rey? Anakin certainly doesn't stand out as a Jesus/Chosen One/messianic figure in the ST. In fact I don't think his name is even spoken once.
     
    alwayslurking likes this.
  4. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Because by then he is a an old dead jedi who is alegend now.
     
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Maybe TFA should have had Kylo search for Sidious while Rey searched for Luke.
     
  6. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    That would have been better... there's several options that would have been so much better than what we got, even options involving the same characters and same overarching story.
     
  7. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Is anyone here going to break the bad news or should I?

    Well, if you want to do that, then it takes a lot more work. Perhaps, I don't know...bringing back Palpatine...and making him the actual villain? Dark Empire did the exact same thing and the reason why that series persisted in the fandom's consciousness for as long as it did is that the entire series was focused on him as an antagonist with the story being rendered in a unique-looking way with his evil seeming to hang around the story in a miasmic sense. That's nowhere to be seen in the ST until he's haphazardly thrown in at the end.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  8. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Rey beating Sheev with help from every Jedi who ever lived isn't quite comparable to Anakin dunking him down a reactor shaft onehanded.

    No one's defending the execution of the sequels or the execution of Palpatine's last minute addition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    It would be better if after saying “The Dark Side Is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural”, he said, “Did Luke really think I was foolish enough to send my true body to the second Death Star?”
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  10. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    When Kylo threatens him he scoffs "I have died before" but when Rey kills him we're supposed to believe it's permanent?
     
  11. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Which kind of makes you wonder why that never happened for Anakin...or Luke, for that matter...seems rather convenient. It's almost like the ST is patting itself on the back for not explicitly naming Rey as a Chosen One but treats her like one in virtually every way. Funny how that works.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  12. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    At the time for Anakin i feel the force was so unbalanced and on Coucant it was not as strong as ob Dagobah and Exegol. And For Luke he was inside a maschine with no help from the from the force that sorrounds him like Yoda tells him. Rey is in a special place where the force is strong and once where there were full of life. Well Rey being strong and granted this power has nothing to do with being a chosen one. Also by this time She had 5 force ghost helping her out along with voices from the cosmic force. I think for the force and force ghost to help you out you need to visit a place strong with the force like Mortis, Dagobah, Exegol and where all life began.
     
  13. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    One has to consider that the momentous moment in the Emperor’s throne room (ROTJ), when Vader kills Palpatine, was the culmination of circa 40 years of cosmic events. It necessitated Anakin getting close enough to the Emperor that when the ‘Chosen One’ did return to the light, the Emperor was not able to see it (both physically and meta-physically). Could anyone else have got close enough to kill the Emperor? Compare that to the Emperor’s demise in TROS, which kind of just happens... and then thrown in the fact that the Emperor never seems to be in control of the situation. His ‘plan’ is abstract and thinly drawn.
     
  14. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    I don't get what's so special about Exegol as far as what happened is concerned. Wouldn't it be a Dark Side nexus if we're following this logic? Precisely how is Rey in an advantageous position compared to Anakin and Luke? Either way, I'm just kind of pointing out how absurd the contrast is between her and the two of them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
    wobbits and Jedi_Fenrir767 like this.
  15. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Yess it's a dark side nexus and close to a gate to WBW. And becuase of that the force is stronger there. Sure it could seem little absurd with her being given her power boost. But i like that she is helped and guided by the spirits of past jedi.
     
  16. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    It’s arguable whether Palpatine was killed off for good at Exegol. But it’s also very likely that he was. Is it impossible that they would bring him back? No, of course not. But the movie clearly is trying to sell the idea that he was, and I buy it.

    I also think it’s fine for him to come back in terms of the prophecy. Anakin did bring balance, he killed the Sith in ROTJ and, more importantly, this resulted in the destruction of the Empire too. Without power, the Sith do not unbalance the Force. Palpatine did come back, barely, but it took him a long time to regain his power. So it’s really not until the sequels that the balance is threatened again.
     
  17. mtt02263

    mtt02263 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2020
    Obi-Wan says in ANH that the Jedi guarded the Republic for a thousand generations. Through this time they have a prophecy of a Chosen One who will bring balance to the Force. Anakin does this and balance is gone in 30 years? 30 years of balance and we're supposed to just accept that the Empire is essentially back and Palatine actually is outright. It makes no sense to me, just another example of how creatively bankrupt JJ Abrams is.
     
  18. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    She used TWO lightsabers!!!

    You would think she'd be at a disadvantage.

    That's all a story for another time.
     
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  19. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Of course! Kylo only threatened him with one, so there was nothing to worry about. Two lightsabers is his only weakness!
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Clearly Lucas was trying to sell the idea that Palpatine was dead, given him being thrown down a shaft, blowing up and then the DSII blowing up too... but clearly that didn't mean **** once others come in to re-write it. Point being, as soon as the writer does it, it has a tendency to erode everything.
     
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  21. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Yeah, but it was the same way with Darth Maul. Lucas also intended for him to stay dead after Episode I, but then he changed his mind. That doesn't mean Maul's always going to keep surviving death, or that suddenly the whole story loses meaning. It just means writers can always do more with a story if they want to. Perhaps to the story's detriment, sure. But as of right now, yeah, Palpatine is dead for real. And I'm sure they don't mind if fans wonder whether he could come back again. But that's no reason to be sure that he will, and to distrust anything the movie might be trying to show the audience.
     
    Fredrik Vallestrand likes this.
  22. Lord Exor

    Lord Exor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2019
    I don't know. Why did Palpatine explode so quickly in the first place? What was that blue energy, and why did it seem as if it were "escaping?" There's more wiggle room with this death than people are willing to admit.
     
  23. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    The 'wiggle room' is, IMHO, largely projection. The emperor was as dead as Lucas could make it without explicity showing his body being eviscerated in the act... which is of course something that wouldn't be in keeping with Star Wars at that point.
     
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  24. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Palpatine surviving is just as out there as Maul, if not more so.
     
  25. Darth Droid

    Darth Droid Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 4, 2013
    Ultimately Maul wasn't explored that much in his original appearance, and so most of his actual characterization came in his later appearances where he came back. Palpatine on the other hand was thoroughly explored across ROTJ and the three prequels, not to mention his countless appearances in tie in media, I just don't think there was much left to do with him in the sequels that hadn't already been done.

    Bringing him back is a ridiculous idea on the face of it, and one that I think a lot of us would have laughed at had we heard it back in 2012 when these movies were announced. That being said, of course it could have been done better if they had set it up at all in the first two movies (maybe end the 2nd one on a cliffhanger of him being resurrected or whatever), but even then it's still a pretty creatively bankrupt idea.