ST What's your opinion on Sheev Palpatine coming back as the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

Mixed feelings. If you are going to bring Palpatine back, then it needs to be foreshadowed and hinted at from Ep 7. You also need to explain how he came back and why it doesn't stomp over the prophecy of the Chosen One. I liked the idea but it was handled badly.

 

I still don't like the return of Palpatine .

I would have liked it better if Snoke had survived Kylo's attack in TLJ and that Snoke would be still the big bad guy in Episode IX ...

 

Yeah, I still hate this decision.

 

Palpatine clone stuff does kind of make the whole second chapter of the saga with the clones have a new weight with Palpatine planning not only his ascension to power but also his plan to stay in power forever.

And I think there's interesting narrative territory there with a Sith who clings to life (vs the Jedi who 'live forever' by inspiring others to take up their fight).

But obviously I wish that TROS actually introduced it in a....normal way.

And I also wish that because of Palpatine's actions, that he received a fate at the end worse than death, worse than what he had before, like....say...doomed to live forever in a state where he's rendered powerless and in constant agony, unable to escape (like...trapped in a limbless blinded Kylo Ren or something), a mirror to Luke/Rey's years of isolation).

 

I was thinking today that it would have been nice if TROS had used Kamino in it’s cloned Palpatine premise. Heck, maybe they could even have engineered the story to have Rey and Kylo’s wave-breaking fight on Kamino, since it’s a water planet.


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I like this and agree. Except the last bit. I hope Palpatine was totally and complete turned into oblivion. He’s gone. His midichlorians separated and one with the Force. His identity erased. His concosness removed. The worst fate for Palpatine is to be no more. Even in the hell you describe he is still clinging on to life.

I think something is happen special on Exegol that requires the cloning to take place there. Palpatine In his weakened state might not be able to leave Exegol. It might be the only place he can stay alive. So Kamino is out for me... but I’d of loved to see Kaninoians on Exegol. Actually Snoke has these weird tall robed guys in his thrown room. Could those have been Kaminoians under all those vails, hoods, and cloaks?

 

Since Palps is basically a Star Wars version of a demon, there really is no killing him. But considering how long it took him and how much Sith community it required for him to return, another possession would be unlikely any time soon.


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I agree, I think Palpatine being 'gone' would also be a fitting conclusion. And I think..maybe that's what happened? Maybe?

But the film didn't really communicate very much to make it seem very final.

The idea of Palpatine being able to come back (again and again) should have been addressed (perhaps something that drives Kylo over the edge. The idea that he can't actually burn down the past). And the finality of his defeat should have been communicated. Or if not, at least having our heroes confident that one day, the next generation will take down Palpatine should he return. That kind of thing.

 

I really like that. Agreed. I wish we were told Palpatine needed the power from Exegol to cheat death. It’s sort of like the place PacMan ghosts go to respawn after PacMan eats them. And that’s the one place Palpatine has all his tech setup to go with the extra force powers for him to cheat death.

But... Just incase Palpatine had a backup Exegol - another force powerful planet or realm, with a cult of followers ready with magic and cloning tech - cause those Sith are crafty and seem to always have a contingency plan. Well the Force Ghosts prevent Palpatine from cheating death. The ironic part is the Force Ghosts are only strong enough to do that in a place like Exegol. So the same power that keeps Palpatine from dying also allows him to be killed for ever.

Maybe a future TV show will give us more info.

 

I always liked the idea of the Force Ghosts being key in Palpatine's spirit being defeated for good, and from a character journey perspective, requiring Rey to make the choice to let go of her spiritual parents (Leia and Luke) in order for this to happen, as perhaps all the ghosts have to leave forever to ensure Palps doesn’t return.

And, I also had an idea about Palpatine being able to survive because of an ability to manipulate the balance of the Force, which creates life after death. So, after...say the destruction of a Death Star and the loss of all lives on board in an instant, Palpatine's spirit would be able to siphon the life created as a result, back into his own self. So, basically, war is keeping his spirit in the land of the living. Thus the only way to defeat him is to break the cycle of war and death (instead of just "blowing them up today" while they "blow us up tomorrow"), something that perhaps would have been accomplished by the unlikely hero, Finn, the ex-stormtrooper.

 

I made a post yesterday on the thread regarding wasted potential characters and mentioned Snoke and suggested a theory I’d have like to have seen as an alternative

I was delighted to hear Palpatine was coming back with that cackle on TROS trailer.

What I do like to imagine could’ve worked however is Palpatine and Snoke swapping roles somewhat, early on in the trilogy it appears Palpatine is back as the big bad, come TROS it then turns out it was just a projection, creation of Palpatine and Snoke was running the show, this then takes out any diminishing of Vader’s legacy/the prophecy, implausibility of Palpatine returning from death infinite times and makes Snoke potentially more powerful than Palpatine and gives him reign to become his own character rather than the flop he ended up

What I do love however is with the return of Palpatine having masterminded Snoke etc is that throughout all 3 trilogies he is the one pulling the strings.

 

I think this is a great idea. Even if Palpatine doesn't get used as projection - there is something about Snoke that screams "Wizard of Oz". In other words, just a guy behind the curtain putting on a show. TROS could have done this even with the fact that Snoke who gets lopped in half by Kylo in TLJ. First scene in TROS could have been Exogol, and deep within the shrine, is a weaker, even more destroyed, shorter, dark sider Snoke putting on a show.

 

Just like episode V created the PT ('I am your father'), there seems to be a hint of some previous story concerning Palpatine. By 'previous' I mean ancient.

He says to Rey: 'it is your birth right to rule here. It is in our blood' So, it was his birthright too. 'Here' is Exegol. That throne. And that throne is old; thousands of years old.

Maybe Palpatine learned about his own bloodline at some point and found Exegol.

Some curious hints in that direction are to be found in the Plagueis novel (2012) And according to that mizzlewump leak from 2014, VII's 2nd draft (feb/march 2013) included the detail of the sith having been founded by an ancestor of Palpatine called Ruin. And the apprentice (Snoke's) was also called Ruin.

That sounds like Kylo Ruin. Knights of Ruin. Ren would be a title (like 'darth') and a lineage. In the Kylo Ren comic the word Ren is used by the KOR to signify 'consuming fire', almost as some kind of element.

Maybe there was a war between that lineage and other sith. Kylo uses the word dyad in his original sense of 2 people 'ruling together'. The dyad was prophesized, apparently.

But for Palpatine, the dyad was just a power. There could only be one ruler. Sith dyarchy vs sith monarchy. That -there's no rule of two, just me- is what Palpatine says to Plagueis when he kills him in the novel mentioned above.

 

I do remember rumours after TFA of Snoke being shown to be a Yoda sized creature, hence the huge holo image etc. That sounds like a very Rian Johnson thing to do... but it obviously didn't make it into the version we got.

 

I think it kind of works, making him the main villain of the the entire 3 trilogies, but it's also a terrible retcon that ruins other things.

 

Suppose it also adds extra layers to Luke’s ‘no-ones ever really gone’ also

 

I remember there was a theory going around after TLJ that Snoke's apparent death was actually a fake out and he would be back for Episode 9, based on some quotes from the supporting materials. I wish I could remember exactly what they where but essentially the implication was that he was hiding something about himself. So you know, something along the lines of "No one's ever seen him eat because he insists on being in his private quarters at the time" or "it just so happens he's always out of town on business whenever Batman shows up" or something like that. Whatever it was, it lead people to believe that the Snoke we saw either wasn't the real Snoke, or had some sort of Horcrux like power where he could regenerate himself as long as they weren't destroyed. Of course, this theory operated on the assumption that the Episode 8 people, the Episode 9 people, and the expanded material people were working to implement an overall plan that integrated all of them together, which clearly turned out not to be the case.

 

I didn’t really like it. It was extremely forced and had no explanation whatsoever. It was awesome to see him again but not worth it.
What they should’ve done was keep Snoke and the big reveal as to how he survived after TLJ would be he’s a clone. And not just any clone but a Plapatine clone. The First Order could’ve been trying to bring him back but instead they got what Snoke is. That way you get the Plapatine tie-in without ruining Anakin fulfilling The Prophecy of the One.

 

I just watched the rise of skywalker last night and I thought it was amazing.

It obviously not my first time seeing the film.

Palpatine coming back as the villain again was actually pretty cool in my opinion.

Maybe with J D Dillard’s Star Wars project since it’s about the sith planet exegol we could see how palpatine came back or maybe it takes place during the old republic.

 

It sucked.

 

TROS was a fun ride, wish more people would have been on board but I agree having Ian return was amazing and he was so evil and wicked.. definitely made his existence truly feel like he was the devil of the SW universe.

 

Ian mcdiarmid even said as a joke and maybe he was serious believing that palpatine is more evil than Satan.


Despite most people not liking palpatines return in the rise of skywalker, I still believe Ian McDiarmid did a fantastic job at acting his role and he’s was much more convincing.

 

I would love to see in jd dillards exegol Star Wars projects is a developing relationship between Snoke and Palpatine and have them compete for power.

I know that snoke is clone but it does not mean he wouldn’t compete for power against palpatine but it would be cool to see how snoke was made by palpatine and who snoke was a clone of.

 

I mean I wish the rise of skywalker could do a better explanation on how palpatine came back from the dead but it looks like JD Dillard project could go into that kind of details and hopefully it will be better executed and I think JD Dillard’s project should be more of tv project than a movie to explain more details left out of the sequel trilogy in general and retcon too.

I thought the sequel trilogy was good and better than the prequels but I am not bashing the prequels.

 

There’s nothing wrong with Ian Mcdiarmid. He could read the back of a vagisil packet and make it sound ok... which is kind of what he did in TROS.