ST What's your opinion on Sheev Palpatine coming back as the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

I think your forgetting that i wasn't talking about character but story arc i knew you were but then that wouldn't have made sense to me, but we all have opinions so let's agree to disagree

 

One thing that I don’t think gets talked about enough is the line from Han, “Snoke is using you for your power. Once he gets what he wants, he’ll crush you. You know it’s true.”

Even when I try to do a google search to find that quote to make sure I quote it correctly, it doesn’t return many hits compared to all the other quotes about Snoke or by Snoke. That was a tease with no payoff.

Snoke didn’t have any real goal beyond killing Luke and using Starkiller base.

And once Luke’s location was known to Snoke, Snoke did not crush nor attempt to crush Kylo, but instead praised him as heir apparent to Darth Vader.

I think that had there been a more coherent outline for the remaining trilogy after TFA, there was ample room to explore that. Even if only to bring Palpatine back. Snoke could have been some Sith loyalist/fanatic that wanted to to resurrect Palpatine and needed Kylo to be the sacrificial lamb in some ritual etc.

I could have bought it better if there was actually a plot to revive Palpatine in motion that the villains explore across the trilogy and succeed in RoS as opposed to just being told that he’s alive in the opening crawl and finding out tgat he make Snoke for… reasons. And half the students that Kylo Ren left the school with?… And the Knights of Ren are apparently more loyal to the Sith than to Kylo Ren, when the comics have depicted them as enemies of the Sith pre-ROTJ.

It’s a mess.


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I think that line is fairly related to dark siders in general. I mean do we really think Palpatine had any loyalty to Vader where he wouldn't have sacrificed Vader to get what he wanted? Vader was a pawn to Palpatine. Just because Kylo was a pawn to Snoke.

 

Then the wording could have been better.

I think the only time Vader would have needed to fear Palpatine throwing him away is if someone stronger, like Luke, came along, or if Palpatine prematurely made a power grab and lost.

But the way Han words things, it makes it sound like Snoke has a particular goal in mind that he’s using Kylo for, and that Kylo will die once Snoke wins.

I don’t think Palpatine ever intended to kill Vader once he toppled the Republic or killed all of the Jedi.


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Palpatine shouldn’t have come back

And if he did…it shouldn’t have been in the flesh

and if he was in the flesh…he shouldn’t have been the villain

 

I have not read Shadow of the Sith yet could someone tell me if Dathan Palpatine Clone and "Son" can grow Normally or is it accelerated like Jango Clones? could it be that Palpatine wanted Dathan to grow enough to take over his body? maybe he was disappointed that Dathan was not Force Sensitive?

 

Grows normally, he is not exactly a clone but modified creation.

 

But he had Palpatine ADN right?

 

Yes.

 

I wish Palpatine had a Lightsaber Duel in Rise of Skywalker or him to Fight Luke or Anakin Force Ghosts

 

No.

 

Lightsaber fight against a ghost. I wouldn't put it past JJ.

Palpatine should have just been a hologram recording that they find on Exogol, on repeat. Similar to how we see Leia's skip after it finishes. The hologram reveals something dark sidery and changes things.

He's not needed at all in the movies. He died. He has nothing to do with either Kylo's drama or even Rey's. In fact, if anything, it just takes away from Rey being a Palpatine.

 

A holocron containing a Sidious AI that possesses all Sith-related knowledge he had at a point prior to his death would've been neat. The other characters would then have been able to have conversations with this hologram which, of course, would've been programmed to mimic the original's behavior and tried to persuade people to join the Sith.

Maybe Force users can even use the Force to imprint their personalities and all their memories on the AI of a holocron? No programming required, just a magical holo duplicate of a person.

 

That....holds some interesting thought.

Then a theme of the movie becomes passing on what you learn to the next gen. It's sort or a race of ideas. Luke passing on what he learned to the next person. Or someone finding an ancient holocron - whether that be just Palpatine or all the Sith - and then learning their secrets that weren't meant to be passed down. And its not that the Sith would return just like that, but that dark side knowledge wasn't meant to be found. What happens when the box is opened. Almost like a curse in a way.

We could hear and see a quiet and dark voiced Palpatine, but different than when he were alive. Somehow chilly now. Dead. A true phantom. Offers up the secrets.

Or hell. Maybe Plaguies had one and the characters finally figure out what he knew way back before Sheev sheeved him in his sleep. lol

 

In Lucas' version, I'm sure he would have spent some screentime ruminating on the spirit world of the ST. I wouldn't;t have put it past him for Anakin to still have some some substantial presence from beyond...

 

I wonder if in GL ST trilogy if he would have all force ghost made an appearance, even Qui gon Jinn from the prequels. Anakin and Yoda be easy to do, but would he had used Ewan for force ghost Kenobi with CGI? also would GL have dvelved more deeper into Mortis and origins of the force that TCW did a little with Yoda's arc.

 

I think one could make a case for bringing back Ewan as a force ghost... the difference being that only Luke new of the Alec Guiness version of Obi-Wan... so force ghosts can change their appearance depending on whom they are communing with.

 

Yes and i wonder if we see Kenobi post ROTLJ as force ghost how they will do it.

 

While i do think Lucas's ST would have had alot of ties to the PT, i don't think Lucas would have used Ewan for Obi Wan for the ST. Hayden as anakins force ghost was there for a purpose, whether you agree with that purpose or not. While Ewans Obi Wan wouldn't be recognisable to Luke. It would seem weird that he just decided to change from his episode 6 appearance to his younger one. And honestly i could Lucas being 100% up for a CGI Alec Guinness. Lucas was always up for what they could do with effects. And this was in between Tron Legacy to Rogue one. So Lucas would have been the first person to dive into that. Whether they would age well... who knows. But he would certainly of tried.

 

There's no narrative reason for Ghost OWK or Yoda to be in the ST. They served their role. They did their job. Luke confronted Vader, and became a Jedi. He didn't fall to the dark side. There's nothing else for them to do, story wise. Luke has outgrown them, and his need for them, at this point.

Anakin on the other hand...that could have been interesting. Since father and son just met at the end and he might have some answers to things. But even so, used spareingly.

 

Does a jedi ever outgrow their masters? Their masters are still their masters

 

Within the narrative, no. There's nothing more for his mentors to teach him after ROTJ, which was to not fall to the darkside. Yoda even mentions this. He's a Jedi. He can learn and take care of the rest. He doesn't need to go to ghost class next fall.

That's a separate debate from a philosophical one.

 

He might need them when learning to become a force ghost.

 

But that's not all they teach though

 

not in return of the Jedi. It’s all about resisting the darkside. That’s his final.