ST What's your opinion on Sheev Palpatine coming back as the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

Agreed, and it makes NO SENSE.

If Palpatine had just come back and was dead for 30 years, I could see some truth in that line, but with what we got it makes no sense.

How does balance even temporary exist, in an age where the Sith are still alive (though in hiding) and plotting his revenge which once again leads to planet destroying superweapons, factions that mimic the Empire, a fallen Skywalker, a destroyed republic, and the Jedi almost wiped out again.

Anakin saying there was balance is like saying there was balance in the TPM-AoTC gap. Sure that era had a Republic/Jedi existing, but like the New Republic, both factions were going to be devastated in its future by a Sith plotting in said eras.

 

Balance can be short lived or it can long. Depends on the situation. Also someone working trough Anakin Skywalker could also achive balance like the prophecy says in master and apprentice.

 

Hmmmm - am I reading you right here? Are you for or against Reylo?

As for Kylo being an "inadequate" character? Wow. IMO it is Rey that is totally inadequate. She has zero charisma. No emotional arcs really at all. Same tone through the entire series. Very boring and even if she has Palpatine blood she was still a tad to great at everything right out of the gate. Theres no development there to cling to. The opening scenes of TFA do set her up as a possibly good character but by the end of TROS I wasnt impressed at all. Maybe Daisy Ridley isnt a good actress? I felt she was bland in Murder on the Orient Express too. Oh well. There was a meme/quote about how Adam Driver needed back surgery after the sequels because he carried the entire trilogy on his back the whole time. Kylo should have stayed bad and Palps should have been left at the bottom of the 2nd death star shaft. That would have worked infnitely better than what we got. IMO.

 

Terrible. It renders ROTJ completely pointless. Our OT heroes have achieved nothing and Anakins final sacrifice was in vain.

There was so much more they could have done. The Sith are bigger than the Emperor.

And I adore the Emperor in all his camp cackling glory - But his story is over with ROTJ.

 

I genuinely love the ST. I'll elaborate as to why if you care to read a bit.

For me, Star Wars has never been incredibly cerebral. Star Wars is not sci-fi. Star Wars is a fairy tail in space and I enjoy it as such. There are many elements/moments/plot points throughout the entire saga that fall apart when you apply logic or scrutinize them.
That has never mattered to me because the heart of Star Wars is much more about the heroic journey, mythology, adventure, romance, etc.

In addition to all that is the ASTOUNDING visual and auditory language that was created for these films. The production design, the look and the feel of the OT was something that had never been seen before and completely altered popular culture. I felt that the ST got back to the classic Star Wars look/feel that had been missing in the PT. The ST communicated visually in a way that had been missing from Star Wars films since 1983.

Lastly, the dialogue was much more like the OT than the dry/stilted material in the PT. It seems like a little thing, but the way characters talk/communicate in the OT is a HUGE part of it's appeal. It grounds the space fantasy and makes it tangible. It makes the myth come alive.

For me, the Sequel Trilogy delivered on all fronts.

Spoiler: Click here for a longer explanation

The ST gave me new characters with familiar archetypes and classic mythology & fairytale tropes. I absolutely love the new characters. Especially Kylo Ren and Rey.

Ren is like a space version King Arthur's Mordred. The classic dark prince archetype. He/Adam Driver a perfect in that role. Yeah, you maybe feel a bit bad for him, but mostly he's a whiny dick that you love to hate.

Ah, Rey. At first glance, Rey simply seems like a female version of Luke. Yet, she's more than that. Sure, some fans bemoan the fact that Rey seems to gain powers/status without earning/working/suffering for them. What is missed is that, unlike Luke , Rey is engaging in the heroes journey. She is engaging in what Maureen Murdock (jungian psychotherapist and student of Joseph Campbell) calls "The Heroine's Journey." There is a reason that Rey's struggles, conflicts, victories, are different than Luke's. For me, this was a fascinating new take on a classic fairytale adventure and something that hadn't been seen in Star Wars yet despite the fact that we have wonderfully strong characters with both Leia and Padme. Lastly, I find it completely inspired/inspiring that the message with Rey is this: You get to define yourself. That the good that saves the world/galaxy can come from the worst of situations/people/places/heritages.

Also, the characters in the ST got back to speaking to each other with the witty banter that permeated the OT. I love the Prequels, but the dialog was dry as hell. The banter that was there felt very forced and stilted. Only Ewan McGregor seemed capable of injecting humor and life into his lines. As I said, this may seem like a trivial thing, but the way characters talk/communicate in the OT is a HUGE part of it's appeal. It grounds the space fantasy and makes it tangible. It make the myth come alive.

As I said before, the ST also communicated itself visually using the classic Star Wars look/design. I get that some fans are upset that the ST simply expanded/updated a lot of previously existing Star Wars production design and iconography. I loved that.

When I think of Star Wars designs, I think of X-Wings and TIE fighters rather than shiny, yellow, Naboo Star fighters, or Flash Gordon-esque chrome space ships.

When I think of Star Wars I picture the results of kit bashing, I picture scorch marks, dirt, sand, grime, Ralph McQuarrie, and the lived in universe look. The ST returned to all of that. Again, the ST communicated visually in the classic Star Wars language that we love. I am not going to turn my nose at the films because it didn't reinvent the wheel as Lucas was known to do. Some can call it derivative, I call it Star Wars as it was meant to be.

I'm sorry, can you explain what you mean? You want me to tell you why I think retconning Vader to being "The Chosen One" is limiting?

 

Bad idea coupled with horrible execution.

I agree, him being around for the past 30 years is nonsensical. It's jammed in where it doesn't fit.

I'll disagree with much of what's been said above. They shoudl have leaned into TLJ, love it or hate it, you can't just reboot for the last movie. JJ embarrassed himself on this one. Sure, @godisawesome would still hate it, but they weren't going to be convinced after TLJ anyway. At least it wouldn't have been a nonsensical U-turn that resulted in some of the aboslute worst film-making in starwars. Make that THE worst. Might as well have people looking at the camera explaining everything.

 

Kylo just wound't work as a villain and JJ knew this that's why he wanted to bring back Palpatine but he got pushback from LF so instead he made Palpatine copy named Snoke. RJ actually freed JJ to do what he wanted in first place and bring back Palpatine. I think JJ just made SNoke to give Kylo a master and because he cound't use Palpatine. Snoke was just placeholder for Palpatine.

 

Kylo couldn't be Vader without an emperor figure. and Kylo was too unstable to be an emperor figure or an ultimate boss.

 

Yeah Kylo was never meant to be the villain but the apprentice of one. He's victim of the emperor figure.

 

What I'm saying is that the Chosen One prophecy, in the way the PT treats it, doesn't actually "limit" Anakin's character at all.

 

Point being Kylo was always going to be an underling to abigger bad, Snoke/Palpatine dosen't matter.

 

That is an entirely baseless assertion. If anything, the most interesting route that he could have gone as a villain would have been when he assumed the mantle of the overarching antagonist, a position that was usually filled by Palpatine before this.

 

No TFA was the one that set up the Snoke and Kylo scenario. Kylo also walked around with a mask like Vader. it was the exact same scenario. just because Kylo killed his dad doesn't mean much at all, because people could still see the redemption seeds being laid.

Its just some hoped he wouldn't be redeemed.

 

I remember Lucas mentioned something about Vader. He said that Vader wasn't really redeemed in the sense that it made up for everything, but he stopped the evil. And he stopped doing evil things. Same with Kylo.

 

Yeah but if he was the villain would he have a redeem arc? that is the question. If Darth Vader was the main villain would he have been redeemed.

 

No, because he doesn't deserve one and hasn't come close to earning one.

 

No villain earns a redemption. earning doesn't make that decision to redeem themselves.

 

Yeah, they do. Otherwise, said redemption comes off as a laughable contrivance. Which Ben's is.

 

Neither did Vader. Only because the love of his son. But Ben is not as dark as Vader and there's more light in his, he's in a grey between light and dark. Olny thing he needed was his father.

 

Not really. Bens emotional flaw was laid fairly bare in TFA. much more then most villains get tbh.

Whether he earnt it or not makes it sound like a judge must determine if they can be redeemed. when that doesn't stop a villain switching sides and doing things differently based on whatever reason.

 

I think Ben and Maul are similar in some ways. Only Maul instead of looking trough the light he went futher and futher into the darkness and olny in death was he redeemed.

 

No, Anakin's redemption is entirely earned because the way he was as Vader was his punishment as he not only lost everything but he merely became the Emperor's slave just as he was born a slave on Tatooine. That is his tragedy and it's one that he ultimately brings on himself. Kylo lost nothing and when he killed the man who supposedly coerced him into doing everything he did, he just kept doing it all for his own benefit.

It can't just be based on whatever reason. Something integral to their character has to spark that development. This is why people make a comparison to the likes of Zuko so often and frankly, even Vader's a better example of this after the events of Empire.