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Amph [Wheel of Time] A Memory of Light (HTR spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jek_Windu, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Evil Incarnate

    Evil Incarnate Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Aug 18, 2003
    Absolutely not. You'll find much more satisfaction if you wait to finish the series properly.

  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Jul 19, 1999
    Wow, who'd have thought someone claiming to be evil would be such a goody-goody? ;)

    Couldn't resist, sorry.
  3. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 20, 2002
    Nooo, don't sneak! Itll be much more fun to work through the book ... and just in case you're mad at the end, you don't want to go through the book dreading something.
    Evil_King_Wiggins likes this.
  4. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 2, 2007
    I couldn't help myself, so I skipped ahead to have a look at the last page.

    There are no endings, and never will be endings, to the turning of the Wheel of Time.
    But it was an ending.

    I so predicted that the final lines would be something like that! Brilliant.
  5. Darth_Smeagol

    Darth_Smeagol Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 7, 2000
    I finished it tonight and loved it. Its really fast paced and didn't feel like 909 page book to me.

    Egwene's death shocked me. It never even entered my mind that she wouldn't survive.

    My favorite moment was Lan killing Demandred. After Gawyn and Galad both failed I was sure Mat was going to be the one to do it but I'm really glad Lan got the hero moment.
  6. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Apr 23, 2001
    Finally got through it after work kept getting in the way.

    It's definitely an ending to the series. There are moments when you can actually pick whether it was Jordan or Sanderson that wrote specific text, but thankfully not that many.

    It does feel like a satisfying ending. A little too convenient in place, but also some nice twists for characters. In the end, given the sheer length of a certain chapter I can't help but wonder what it would have been like if Jordan had finished it himself since we got 3 books where we were supposed to get 1.

    The minute Gawyn failed, I assumed it was going to be Lan or Tam (especially after the sword practice scene with Rand) with the medallion. Galad having a shot first was a nice touch, as was no definitive resolution to the reveal about his and Rand's shared parentage.

    Egwene's death was a shock, but a good one. The pitfall of too many stories on this scale is how many get a "happily ever after" or some sort of injured/partial version rather than a "happily never after", Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings being examples of such where all of the first tier characters survive. But there was a decent number of second tier characters that didn't make it, and at least one first tier.

    I did like the Damondred reveal. A very good twist on what we all thought was a given situation, and while some might call it a bait-and-switch and last minute get out of jail card, it fits with working across all lands as well as why we didn't hear a thing from him up until now. Lanfear's last play wasn't bad either as it made her staying around work better. Although I think Moghedien was wasted as her 'role' in this book could have been taken by any Black Ajah and her used in Graendal's place instead of another resurrection. At least both of their last scenes gave some nice poetic justice.[/spoilers]
  7. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 2, 2007
    I'm about 150 pages in. Thoughts so far:

    Wow, Talmanes, what a badass!
    I honestly don't remember this Androl guy from the previous novels. But then again, I haven't read any of the series since TOM came out.
    It was nice to see Taim mingling with the Forsaken.
  8. FatBurt

    FatBurt Chosen One star 6

    Jul 21, 2003
    Ok I'm happy with spoilers so have no issues with opening the tags here but I have two questions before I get the book tomorrow that I can't wait for

    Who is Demandred

    Who is Taim????
  9. Darth_Smeagol

    Darth_Smeagol Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 7, 2000
    Demandred is the leader of the Shara. He calls himself Bao the Wyld.

    Taim is just Taim. He gets promoted to the Forsaken and takes the name M'Hael.
  10. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 12, 2000
    Finished early Wednesday morning... absolutely loved it. Fantastic finish to a fantastic series.

    Also, made it to the signing in Charleston yesterday... and not only got the final three Wheel of Time hardbacks signed and personalized by Sanderson (and signed by Harriet, too), but also got all my other Sanderson books signed and personalized to boot (Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, Warbreaker, Alloy of Law, Way of Kings, and Emperor's Soul). Plus the library had a bunch of cool WoT memorabilia, including draft papers, foreign covers, and an old computer Jordan used to work on the series at the beginning.

    Also, I suspected Egwene was going to die. I was pretty certain at least one of the major characters besides Rand was going to die - either Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, or Elayne - and I had a feeling Egwene topped that list. Though Perrin and Elayne weren't far behind.

    That didn't stop me from having a "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" moment when she died. Though really, what a way to go.

    Oh, and Sanderson said yesterday that he wanted a particular chapter to be really long to help the reader feel just how exhausted the characters were, because they're constantly fighting for over 24 hours. And that's pretty much exactly what it did, IMO.
  11. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 12, 2000
  12. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 2, 2007
    I'm around 450 pages in (reading slow, I know), and...

    During the part where the Sharans attack the Aes Sedai camp, I suddenly came to the realization that Sanderson is treating gateways like how they are in the game Portal. I know there's nothing fundamentally different between how Jordan wrote them and how Sanderson did it, but the parts where Bryne is using a gateway to spy on a battlefield from above combined with Leanne's cushion of Air as they escape through a gateway in the floor made me come to that realization.
  13. SoloKnight

    SoloKnight Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 13, 2003
    Picked it up Wed morning and just finished it. It felt like an ending and it felt right for the series, but I wasn't overly fond of it. I started it the day after I finished my re-read of the other 13 books (and New Spring) and I think my favorite is A Gathering Storm.
  14. Raven

    Raven Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 5, 1998
    He very specifically has said that that game was an influence.

    It's one of the things that the crew on Dragonmount has complained about a lot.
  15. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 12, 2000
    I've actually been waiting a while for people to figure out that they could do that.
  16. SWpants

    SWpants Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Oct 28, 2004
    The chapter "The Last Battle" is 190 pages. That's worse than Jordan's 100 page prologue. I'm only halfway through it. [face_plain]

    I understand there's a million and one things going on, but it could have been split and the chapters named....something else. At least there are plenty of character breaks.

    I was an impatient dummy and read the spoilers already given. It still hurts to read of some deaths.
  17. SoloKnight

    SoloKnight Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 13, 2003
    I think Sanderson said somewhere that he purposely made it horrendously long so that readers would grow weary just like the characters were.

    I thought many of the deaths were poorly handled. Characters came back just to die.
  18. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 12, 2000
    That was exactly why he did it, and I thought it worked very well.

    I disagree about the character deaths - some of them had to be abrupt because that's how it happens in war. One moment someone's there, the next they're gone.
  19. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Aug 18, 2002
    i agree, the utmost realism should always be striven for in fantasy novels
  20. SoloKnight

    SoloKnight Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 13, 2003
    I didn't mind the abruptness of the deaths per say, it just started to feel like, "Hey we haven't seen you since book 3 (or 4 or 5 or whatever)" *DEAD* Like the character didn't do anything except die.

    Siune felt like she was only in this book to die. She really didn't have any other role.
  21. SWpants

    SWpants Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Oct 28, 2004
    well then that would make perfect sense.

    Yeah, their deaths were just there and abrupt. If we haven't seen them since book ___ then chances are I forgot about them. :p

    And regarding your spoiler above:

    I think saying Siuan was there "just to die" is a bit of an understatement. She was fulfilling one of Min's viewings.
    And she saved Tuon ;)
  22. SWpants

    SWpants Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Oct 28, 2004
    I ended my reread at book 7 (Crown of Swords) because I couldn’t resist any longer. It was a good place to end – although a lot happens in the following 6 novels, A Memory of Light brings back the key things that happen, though I do forget some small things. Events like Mat and Tuon; Taim, the Asha’man, and the healing of the taint; Elayne being pregnant; Moiraine being brought back – these are things that I remembered anyway. I forgot who Pevara and Androl were, but looking them up was easy.

    My reviews are different than traditional ones in that I jot down my thoughts as I read. So some things may seem weird at first if you read through, because it was how I felt at the time of that event.

    Therefore, my post is spoiler-heavy, with my reactions as bullets and not in paragraphs. some of it I shared here, but not all.

    - Pevara has a very interesting way of thinking. I’m glad she and Androl have a lot of scenes because they interact well together. Them bonding each other was surprising but “fun” in a way! I also wonder if their being able to read each others’ minds is unique to them, or just the situation.

    - Taim possibly Turning Logain makes me sick and fearful.

    - Rand being able to join everyone was awesome. He has definitely become adept at the Game.

    - Moiraine came at a VERY convenient time! Hahaha

    - The female vs. male attitudes is much more subdued than in prior books. I don’t remember the last two MoL novels, so maybe this is just Sanderson vs. Jordan. Instead of complaining about each other though, they grumble as normal and then DO something. It’s not prevalent in every chapter, and makes reading more enjoyable.

    - Rand accepting the fact that he does love 3 women and they reciprocate that love is wonderful.

    - Uno cracks me up. I love Uno.

    - Egwene and the Aes Sedai fighting was fantastic. Beautiful imagery and a great hint at what was to come.

    - Rand sparring with Tam was also amazing. Once Rand found the flame and the void, I felt like I was in his mind. That rarely happens. But I felt peaceful and almost as if I could anticipate what would happen.

    - Mat and Rand bantering and working together cracked me up. I didn’t realize that they hadn’t seen each other since book 6 or 7! Yeesh! Holy cow, I also didn’t realize how much I missed it.

    - “Closing” Tel’aran’rhiod is sad, but understandable.

    - Gawyn and Egwene are freaking adorable together. I love that he stayed close to her, held her, acted like her husband and not just her Warder.

    - Page 370 – Mat’s a softie, hahaha. He’s so adorable. I love him. He and Tuon work well together.
    (“How could he talk to a woman if he could not try to make her smile?”)

    - Pevara and Androl ruining (in a way) Lyrelle’s plans for Warders caused me to grin evilly. I had forgotten about it, but it was still… pleasant to read.

    - Bao and the Sharans are creepy. I didn’t realize that I could be turned off by a people more than I am of the Seanchan.

    - I have a bad feeling about Gawyn and that ring.

    - Knotai? That is a humourous name for Mat.

    - Elayne has definitely grown. It’s great to see her as a true leader with strong and encouraging words.

    - I enjoyed reading of Rand entering Shayol Ghul, and Perrin’s part in all of it. Perrin’s seemed to go very fast, and I didn’t feel like I could keep up. But that is just how Slayer is.

    - Tuon and Egwene meeting and negotiating was very intriguing and fun to read. I don’t normally like such political banter, but with those two I enjoyed it.

    - Bashere being a Darkfriend made me sad.

    - Mat did NOT have to open his bloody mouth about Min! Ugh! But then the man talks sense! Sometimes, I love him so much, I become frustrated.

    - Agelmar, Bryne and Ituralde being Compelled makes a lot of sense. It’s scary, but seeing in Ituralde’s thoughts really brought to light the situation and feelings of Compulsion. It was very interesting.

    - Mat has definitely grown. I’ve known this, but it becomes more obvious midway in this novel. He has more confidence, especially around Egwene and Elayne. He shows them just how strong of a commander he is.

    - The red veils are the banished Aiel men! I didn’t expect that! I’m so bad at these clues.

    - I swear, the Blight gets worse each time it comes up.

    - Reading from Olver’s point of view was pretty cool. I can’t remember if that’s happened before. It was also scary and a bit sad. He definitely knows what he’s doing and has seen much more than any child should.

    - Oh, Dannil, you really don’t want to have endured what Rand, Mat & Perrin did.

    - Mat and Talmanes communicating is what I love to read. I can’t make heads or tails of underlying meanings and codes, but when it’s spelled out for me I just eat it up.

    - I wish we saw a bit more of Rand vs. the Dark One. I understand there is much more to the Last Battle than those two, but that could definitely have been fleshed out with the alternate futures and a battle. Maybe towards the end of the book.

    - It’s bothered me for some time that everyone seems to know the same sword techniques. I just want to yell at them to create something new, to develop an alternate strategy to defend against one. So even though I was worried with Gawyn facing Demandred (with reason, since I already spoiled myself that Egwene would die and I have a feeling it’ll be after Gawyn’s death, if not simultaneous to it), I was actually glad to read that Demandred did something SIMILAR to a known technique, and not the move itself.

    - I wonder now if Androl and Pevara’s feelings developed because of the bond (because they can’t hold anything back, they see in each other’s minds) or if, given time, their feelings would have eventually developed. Pevara DID have her mind set on bonding Androl anyway, and singled him out. Which makes me wonder what she saw in him from the start.

    - Rhuarc being taken was very abrupt and almost ruined the flow of everything, but it’s the Last Battle. Things are going crazy

    - Mat and Min saving Tuon was awesome, as was Siuan coming in. Her dying was sad, even if mostly expected because of Min’s viewing. It does feel like Siuan (along with many others) are only in this book to fulfill prophecy, viewing, or just to die.

    - And then I realized that this chapter is called “The Last Battle” and it’s 190 pages long. If Sanderson truly wrote this so readers could feel as winded as the characters, he did an excellent job.

    - Yup, there’s Gawyn dying. Ah, it’s still sad to read. Egwene’s reaction rips my heart…but not as much as Galad holding Gawyn. I am very glad that Gawyn told Galad of Rand though.

    - The constant analogy of dice vs. cards keeps in mind the fact that battle is a gamble.

    - I’m very worried about Tam (and Abell). But reading of Tam fighting and immersing himself in the void is awesome.

    - Ogier fighting is very sad.

    - Egwene differentiating between her self and Amyrlin was pretty cool. I like how she chose Leilwyn for her Warder.

    - Galad! I didn’t expect him to win, but…oh, Galad. Oh, I hope he lives.

    - The idea of Rand’s perfect future was a nice one, but there definitely needs to be a balance. It made me think of the Garden of Eden, and how once sin was committed, there were mixed personalities, death, and a cycle in life.

    - Olver being a part of the battle was sad. I really, really hope Faile lives.

    - With Logain’s plans for the sa’angreal, I’m kind of glad he didn’t defeat Demandred.

    - Bela was a GOOD horse. Much love for her.

    - Egwene’s behavior make me think of the quote “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”

    - Rand seeing everyone’s deaths was sad, but I’m also glad we got to see it as well.

    - BIRGITTE?! BIRGITTE! *gapes at book*

    - Min with Tuon and ousting the spy was great. I’m glad that Tuon was true to Mat.

    - Egwene’s death was spectacular. I love the idea of something completely opposite of balefire. Rand’s reaction makes sense, since he and Egwene were so close. So that it was her voice, more than his father’s voice, that allowed him to let go and realized this Battle is NOT just about him, made me smile.

    - I do like how the gateways are being used now.

    - I. Love. Lan. His death was devastating, but I’m happy that he was the one who took out Demandred.

    - Oh yay Olver was able to blow the Horn! I too thought it was of Mat’s technical death. BUT HUZZAH BIRGITTE SHE’S BEEN WOVEN BACK IN!! Aw, and Noal too. I love it. :)

    - I don’t like Mishraile, but at least he’s true to his beliefs.

    - I absolutely love Pevara and Androl’s scheme. Genius!

    - Thom watching, protecting, and detrmining how to describe what was going on was wonderful. I especially like his distaste of the word “epic.”

    - I freaking enjoyed Rand, Moiraine & Nynaeve exploiting Callandor’s flaw against Moridin. That is such a brilliant concept.

    - While it was abrupt, I like how Perrin just completely overpowered Lanfear. Hah!

    - FAILE! ALIVE! Thank you, Sanderson!

    - Rand taking over Moridin’s body is creepily weird.

    - HAHA oh, Cadsuane.

    - The end! Beautiful. Ah, it is an end.
  23. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 2, 2007
    One comment on your comments:
    I don't think Bashere was a Darkfriend; he was just Compelled like the other captains were, but the scope of that Compulsion hadn't been realized yet.
  24. SoloKnight

    SoloKnight Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 13, 2003
    Bashere wasn't a darkfriend. Characters just assumed he was because they discovered him screwing up battle plans before they realized all the captains were being compelled. He died in that long list of names that die when Rand is fighting the DO and the DO shows him what's happening.

    Also, Lan survived! Which I was really glad because it would have sucked if Nynaeve was the only main character who didn't get to be with the one she loved.

    Just out of curiosity, when can we stop highlighting spoilers?
  25. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 2, 2007
    I think the general rule is 1 month after the book's release.