Discussion Where does Star Wars go as an IP from here?

Yeah, "not experimenting with Star Wars" would go against everything the franchise has ever stood for. Star Wars has always evolved and tried different ways, especially under Lucas. The PT is proof for doing something entirely different, heck, even the OT didn't follow one approach.

Lucas has always been adamant about pushing things forward, not resting on or repeating what you already have. He sold Lucasfilm so that others could tell their stories, not so that they would do everything in exactly the same way he did. Just look at his reaction to TFA.

One doesn't need to like the things that have come out so far, but trying to link that to there being one specific formular for Star Wars, and Disney not having followed it, is a gross distortion of history. There has never been such a formular, in fact, such a formular would be the anti-thesis of what Lucas had said Star Wars should be.

 

When posters try to compare what Lucas did with the franchise to what some new young writer/director could do in the future, it just boggles my mind. Lucas created the franchise. He took all kinds of risks experimented in all kinds of ways, and with the PT, he did that again. In fact, with the ST, he had almost certainly tried to do that again, based on what we've heard about the ST treatment he wrote (and Disney made their biggest mistake by not using it). But what none of you seem to understand, IMO, is that all of these creative ideas, all of the "experimental" things that Lucas did... they all came from Lucas' head! They are all linked together in that the source was one person's vision. Of course the creator was creative. It's not a coincidence he came up with all this great stuff. He's a genius. That's the point.

To bring in someone else, and pretend like their new, daring, groundbreaking ideas are going to be of the same quality, essence, or nature that Lucas brought to the table...that's insanity. At least let them prove themselves first by making a traditional SW movie or show, so we know they understand what Star Wars is...

Star Wars has to mean something. It can't just be anything in space. It can't just be anyone's take. You're literally reducing Star Wars down to a marketing tool.

 

In my view, Favreau and Filoni (along with Chow, Famuyiwa and Waititi) have proven exactly that.

 

I think Favreau and Filoni definitely have shown they get it. The others I feel like were working under Favreau, so let's wait and see with them. But yes, Favreau and Filoni get it... IMO, what they seem to get is that the object of the game is to be smart and entertaining, while STILL ADHERING to Lucas' vision. I have faith neither of them would take the franchise in a bad direction, one that changes the tone or overall sense or purpose SW has always maintained. Rian Johnson nearly destroyed the franchise, because IMO he didn't respect that purpose. He lost Disney billions. The box office for ROS was a billion less than TFA. That's not to mention the number of films cancelled in the wake of Solo's poor performance, which I still believe was largely due to customer dissatisfaction with TLJ. Can't prove that, but it's my opinion and the opinion of many others as well. DIsney should not, cannot, gamble on filmmakers without a great track record. RJ did not have a good enough track record.

 

So you think Lucas would agree the franchise can only be experimental if it's he who does it?

 

I think Lucas is a gentleman and wouldn't say that publicly. But I also know that he owned Lucasfilm from 1977 until 2015, and he had every opportunity to let young filmmakers come in and do all kinds of experimenting with Star Wars, and he very rarely did it. He did let Genndy Tartakovsky do a Clone Wars cartoon that was experimental, but then quickly decided to do it himself instead. Perhaps there were other examples I can't think of. But history speaks for itself. Lucas did not bring in other people to experiment with Star Wars during his ownership of the franchise. I think it's pretty clear he felt he was the one who needed to make the decisions, and that served him very well.

So would he publicly admit to that? I doubt it. And at this point, he probably doesn't care anymore because Disney has already tarnished his saga to the point at which he has removed himself entirely. So maybe now he would say let anyone do anything. To hell with it. But when he was in charge... he clearly did not see it that way.

 

I can't read this as anything but an argument not to have any movies made under Disney. If Star Wars has always been evolving, and can only evolve under Lucas, how can it go on? They have to make pale imitations or do nothing? Those are the only options?

TLJ felt FAR more like a Star Wars movie to me than anything else produced under Disney (although RO is my favorite). I think what Johnson did with his movie was much more an honor to what came before (Lucas), and what Abrams did with his movies was much more a disservice. To whom should these writers/directors prove that they "get Star Wars"?

 

Ah, yes that's why he was so enraptured with TFA...

He absolutely did let people experiment when he was in charge. That was one of the great things about Legends.

 

This directly contradicts evertything he has ever said and done. I really don't know why you cling to an idea that simply does not fit to reality.
All you are really doing here, is combining your dislike of the recent Star Wars movies with a strawman argument that puts words into Lucas' mouth or lets you pretend to know what he really thinks or feels, even though all of that goes entirely against the actual facts.

Add disparaging comments that aren't supported by reality and just based on your bias ("tarnished the saga", "removed himself entirely"), and there is no real argument to be had. You simply cannot ignore facts just because they don't fit to your narrative. He explicitly sold Star Wars so that others could tell their stories, he explicitly wanted Star Wars to be fresh and new every time (and no, he most definately didn't mean that he needed to be in control of that, else it would contradict his other point), and he didn't "remove himself entirely", he retired, which was the whole point. He was there if people wanted to talk to him, he met with all the directors and creative leads, he was on set on multiple productions, all while having a small child to raise. That's not removing yourself entirely. Did he possibly get the urge to get involved now and then? Sure, just like many people who retired after doing a job for a very long time. It's not something that ends and you immediately lose all connection to it.

You are simply twisting his words, and pretending that he didn't say the things he did or mean the things he said, while declaring that he secretly believes everything just the way you do. There is no logic behind that at all. You don't get to decide what Lucas says or feels, nor do you define what is or isn't Star Wars, or what is "true to the saga" and what isn't.

 

OK, but then he sold Lucasfilm. If he didn’t think other filmmakers should experiment with his franchise, why sell it?

 

I think one of the problems with the current era of Star Wars (and I say this as someone who’s liked quite a bit of its output) is that the people in charge, much like a lot of the fanbase, don’t know what they want from this franchise.

Generally speaking, when making a movie, you need to have a clear idea of the kind of story that you want to tell so you can effectively communicate your vision to the audience. With regards to the ST in particular, I’m not sure that LFL could decide whether they wanted to retread old ground and recreate the feeling of what came before or push the franchise into new uncharted territory. You can see this in the reactive nature of each of the films:

• TFA was meant to ape the style and aesthetic of the OT as much as possible in order to appeal to fans who felt that the PT was too radical of a departure.
• TLJ felt like a reaction to the reception of TFA in a lot of ways in that it didn’t play things nearly as safe and tried to move past the trappings of the OT that its predecessor was stuck in.
• TROS in turn was almost certainly made in part to attempt to appease those alienated by the controversial decisions in TLJ and outright retcons several of them.

Going forward, I’d say the main thing that the creatives in charge of the franchise need to nail down is exactly what kinds of stories they want to tell with it and stop being so reactive with regards to their creative decisions. They don’t need to give the audience what they want, but they better be damn sure of what it is they want.

 

Really well said @Darth Nave Sums it up perfectly.

 

I think TV might help with this, movies don't need wide audiences and don't need to please everyone, they can just tell a very niche story and thus not need to please every segment of the fanbase.

T.V can make things applied for certain things for certain segment of the fanbase.

 

I still feel that Star Wars needs a single creative person at the top (or a pair of creatives), who can apply a unified strategy that content can be developed and produced under... be it movies or TV shows. It kind of feels that Favreua and Filoni are now (informally anyways) filling that position. I'm not sure how true that is in terms of the current day to day control of Star Wars, but I'd feel positive with those two overseeing all creative content for the next circa 10 years. I guess the only problem with having one or two creatives at the top, is that if you don't like their style/philosophy, you're probably not going to like a lot of the new content.

 

I'm going to add my two cents here. The bottom line is that Disney is playing it safe. Everything within the movies to live action television, video games, and animation are being done between the first and sixth star movie. I don't think anyone wants to touch the sequels for now, and the only thing that was inbetween that series of movies was Resistance. Nothing is really being done to create new and expansive universes. Its all the same, the same red and green lasers, the same filming in film, the same practical effects, the same Empire or a derivative of it. Nothing is new, the rebels and resistance are the same and the Empire and First Order are the same. Star Wars as an IP probably has to move forward some 100 years and start fresh with new concepts and stories. We are getting Mandalorian which is between 6 and 7. Now its bad Batch between 3 and 4, with Cassian and Obi-Wan in the same time frame. Its like everything revolves around the movies. Nothing new, no creativity whatsoever. In order for star wars to be truly epic, it must move past what came before. Yes its easier to use star destroyers and tie fighters and x-wings but, sooner more than later you have to change and move forward because if the sequels were any indication, its that star wars is not being viewed the same as before.

 

Very true @vong333 They have to breakaway from existing movies (in creating content) because, as you say, it's all one or the other form of tie-in. However, High Republic looks pretty bad, IMO, and that doesn't revolve around movies. However, it's really safe. The synopsis feels like reworking of some Marvel characters into SW (the lead Jedi being Captain Marvel with a lightsaber). So not promising.

 

See I just see this and DO NOT like this idea at all...In all honestly maybe Star Wars should have just stopped in 1983 . Maybe fans are trying to expand something that shouldn't be expanded on.

Either way every time I see stuff like a 100 year fresh start stuff...I cringe.

If Disney is playing safe then I like that way to be honest, I just wanna be entertained

 

This is why the next Star Wars film should be in the distant past, long before the Empire.

Plenty of options to choose from. High Republic (or pre-High but post Old), Old Republic, Pre-Old Republic.

Not only that, but there should be a tv series (animation or live action) which gives us an era not between films.

I was disappointed with the Bad Batch news, and with the probable Rebels sequel, it may be awhile until TV escapes the confines of the film saga.

 

From what we've heard, the live-action series Leslye Headland is working on is set in a completely different time period than one we've seen before, so "awhile" may end up being 2022/2023, which given the current state of global affairs and how it's affected film/TV production across the board, really isn't all that far off.

 

If Star Wars is to move forward, in terms of concepts and philosophies, I think it has to go backwards in order to go forwards. A trilogy set at the dawn of the Jedi, which shows them getting to understand their place in the universe, as well as the internal fracture that leads to the formation of the Sith. That to me is the jumping on point to reposition all of Star Wars... if one felt that all of Star Wars needed to be repositioned.

 

The TV shows interest me. Kenobi and Cassian Andor are promising. If they get a Solo show that would be even better. I feel the games are back on track with Fallen Order now becoming a franchise. Hopefully the concepts for the new films are worthwhile.

 

The most encouraging thing, IMO, is hearing [some] ST actors repeat they "moved on from SW" which in translation means studio moved on from ST [characters]. At least for the time being. So we shouldn't dread continuation from that trilogy at least.

 

I've heard rumours today that Natalie Portman has signed on for Kenobi...

 

I believe that originated from We Got This Covered.