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Discussion Where does Star Wars go as an IP from here?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by 2Cleva, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Darth Megatronus

    Darth Megatronus Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 17, 2020
    you underrate my ability
     
  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Whilst I don't disagree with you, I think the jury is still out, in terms of what the wider audience reaction would be. At present, there hasn't been a single film that isn't directly connected to the OT in some way. I'm fairly confident that Star Wars can/will exist without the direct OT connections, and do well, but I'm not sure Lucasfilm/Disney feel as confident as we do.
     
  3. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Disney was clearly way overconfident in the appeal of OT; definite hubris in the way they released Solo, as if any movie close to the OT would sell huge regardless of all kinds of poor choices around marketing and such.

    No, I don't think the OT tie in is necessary, and just the opposite is true- they are going to have to put out some movies that can be successful without it if SW is going to continue to be the massive movie event that it always has been. The TV shows can all be great, and make Disney billions on Disney Plus subscriptions; but the movies at this point are another ball of wax; it is sink or swim with new scenarios, characters, plots, etc. There is a high level of pressure in that regard right now for Disney/LFL with SW movies being at a crossroads, and certainly they are not going to meet the challenge with a bunch of OT rehash movies.

    It's all about how well they will be able to put together a new set of movies in the GFFA in a way that connects with the audience.
     
    2Cleva likes this.
  4. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    This. Even a quality show like The Mandalorian had heavy OT connection to its appeal with Baby Yoda. It isn't even Yoda but everyone - from hardcore to casual fans - associated the character with Yoda - an OT classic character.

    There are a lot of successful IPs that are similar to Star Wars in that they are cultural phenomenons that drive merchandise sales from their stories (film or TV) and have classing main characters (Transformers, TMNT, etc..) as well as could lead to world building. Studios have tried to branch out to different stories but they have always found the most successful stories result from reboots. Watching Transformers on Netfilx reminded me of that as well.

    Hindsight is 20/20 but doing the ST first was still a good idea. Where it went sideways was not using GL's story. Not because of GL but because of the consistency in telling that same story and not disrupting that foundation.

    Harry Potter is another great example. A world that obviously can stretch far beyond the main characters but has had poorer success when they do. That world was a factor in Disney purchasing Lucasfilm - to compete with what Universal was doing in their theme park.

    A reboot of the OT seems blasphemous but its also par for the course for Hollywood because it works the best in selling an IP.

    Disney obviously is about to let Filoni play with his creations for a while - from Clone Wars, Mandalorian, and Rebels but all those are rooted in the OT. A Lando series as well. A reboot of the OT likely isn't on the horizon but I doubt there are any stories anytime soon (next 7+ years) that will be detached from it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  5. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I don’t think anyone at Lucasfilm believes that a really well-told, great story with great characters set in the GFFA can’t be hugely successful without being explicitly connected to a few characters from the OT. Baby Yoda is beloved not primarily because of Yoda, but because he’s an adorable character in a well-told story set in the really interesting fantasy/ sci-fi world of Star Wars. Same with Rogue One. Vader was barely in it, but audiences were captivated by the heroic stand of these new characters. The connection to the OT was just a bonus for Star Wars fans. The comparison to the Bond or Indy franchises is wholly off base. It misses the massive appeal of the GFFA itself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  6. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Let's be honest, the SW films that are the most divorced from the OT are... the PT. Many connections, of course, but far less reliant on the particular iconic stuff and even the aesthetic that almost all the Disney films and shows have traded on -- the Falcon, TIES 'n' X-Wings, the vast majority of the specific characters. And it's still pretty arguable that the general audience looks back on the PT less fondly than most of the Disney efforts. I don't have a particular point here, it just seems germane to the discussion that on many levels, from the aesthetic to the way they're perceived, the PT films are still the real outliers.

    What I do think is happening is that, while it's taken time and there have been missteps, the overall glob of all onscreen SW produced is finally broad enough to branch away from the roots. It's viable that characters from one spinoff property can wind their way through enough other spinoff properties that suddenly they're a viable lead. Cassian and Ahsoka started in Saga-related stories but they're moving on, and rumor suggests other such characters will too. And I think it's just gotta go gradually. The MCU model that they might have tried for just isn't available -- sorry, but the old EU doesn't sport any characters even as iconic in the public mind as even a third-stringer like Ant-Man -- and a sudden shift to a totally new time period with no known characters is a pretty big risk. But when the stuff like TCW and Mandalorian and Obi-Wan are kind of drawing from all eras at once, there's starting to be a wholistic backdrop against which new stuff can emerge, bit by bit. SOLO probably shows you can't just rely on familiar characters, but everything else shows you do have to rely on *something* familiar. We'll see that middle ground. You won't see any more major films that are just based on one familiar character like Han, but you also won't see an Old Republic film with all new characters and designs. They're setting up farm teams and they're going to use them.
     
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  7. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    I sorta like this approach myself, naturally just building the universe with stories that start close to the OT (Since that is the safe zone of Star Wars) and TCW to a extend and then just expand and expand and expand.

    Give it time and say in another 10 years (Although I think we are seeing the fruits of the labor now) we'll be seeing a lot of Star Wars stories on screen (And maybe off with books and comics...Aphra for instance) coming into fruition.

    Especially Phantom Menace.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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  8. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    At a surface level, aesthetically, the PT seems furthest removed from the OT... as you say, the PT relies a lot less on existing iconography (which is a good thing IMHO). However, I see more of the PT in The Mandalorian (sans the stormtroopers etc.) and Solo (and to a lesser degree TLJ), which seem a little less creatively restricted to the aesthetic of the OT. So whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, I think the outlier is actually TFA.
     
  9. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I agree with the general point about the PT, but not about TPM. That film looks and feels closer to the OT than the comparatively cartoonish and overly-CGI’d AOTC and ROTS. Not to mention that a large chunk of the film takes place on Tatooine...
     
  10. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I am hoping Lucasfilm is able to rope in casual fans or people who never got into Legends Old Republic, into non-Saga era content, stories that don't have close visual connection to the OT era.

    The High Republic could be the beginning of that.

    Personally I see the HR as a smart move. Set in the past before TPM, but not to far like 1000+ that the old republic era would entail. Allowing there to be differences that separates it from the PT/OT eras while not being to different. Yoda could also show up.

    There needs to be a happy medium about how much differences are allowed in the current canons first venture beyond the Saga time period.

    Eventually I would love to see even more differences someday. Late Old Republic with Darth Bane or even further into the ancient past, where the Old Republic is in its early stage or doesn't exist yet. Hyperdrive rarity, traditional sabers have not been invented, etc
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  11. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I have confidence that the vastness of the GFFA is sufficient for LFL to make films that are just as successful even if they are noticeably deviated from the Yodas, Vaders and Skywalkers of the galaxy. I also will say that I feel the ones that still adhere close to the whole Empire, TIE fighters, X Wings and Stormtroopers kind of aesthetic will be an easier sell-but IMO it's been proven now that if the right team is working on a SW film, it can be great, whatever it is. I'm actually excited to see what they come up with.

    I do believe any future SW film won't have that special magic that the OT had-cos there's just no duplicating the originals (with any franchise this can be true), but that's not to say it won't be massively successful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  12. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    I mean special magic is defined a lot by the generation of it's time...Current generations will decide what is "Special magic" or not.
     
  13. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Couldn’t disagree more. If Han, Luke and Leia were a trio of characters in an adventure film series that took place in Idaho, do you think it would have become a global phenomenon? The fascinating world Lucas created, and its believability, is absolutely central to the success of Star Wars. And the great characters put it way over the top into the pop culture stratosphere.
     
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  14. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    To bad Han Luke and Leia haven't aged that great and have had better stories later in life ;p

    Granted fans Overrate the world because all they want is history books and not good stories from what I've seen in terms of discourse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  15. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    It’s obviously a combination of a great world and great characters that make Star Wars what it is. I think underrating either one is the problem.
     
  16. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Personally at that point I just say let one audience enjoy it and if the other doesn't like it hope that they have something else more in line to their taste.

    Finding balance is nice but this isn't a perfect world sadly.
     
  17. starbuck_archer

    starbuck_archer Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Scifi in general needs another Galaxy Quest: a film that unites both fan groups and those producing material (via acting, producing editing etc..).
     
  18. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Yep, and I'm glad you mentioned TCW there. I think they kind of stumbled around before finding that "deviate by degrees until we really end up with something different" approach but it is starting to work. And they might have been a little surprised to realize that TCW and the animated shows are kind of the key, having more hold on the fandom that grew up with them than expected, and forming a pretty good glue between the PT, OT, and post-OT timeframes. Not to mention launching Filoni, who's become maybe their most influential creative force right now and has those GL-protegee bonafides to boot.
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  19. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    They can also start going backwards now that the ST is done, start connecting the dots as well as bridging out.

    Doubt the Mandalorian will go full n because it's only 5 years after ROTJ but it can defiantly slowly start building those 30 years post Jedi pre TFA make the link a little stronger as well.

    As for TCW that has in a lot of ways been the backbone of a lot of the lore outside the ST. Rogue One, Solo, really anything set in the Dark Time OT Era has built off small threads from TCW like Saw Gerraw and Maul being back in the game. Rebels brining back Ashoka.

    TCW in a lot of ways is sorta the real back bone of the current EU and non Saga Stories.
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  20. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    No question the OT had great characters as well as great world building (or galaxy building). There is a reason lines from those characters are so imbedded in our culture (e.g. "I am your father").

    However, the way they are going away from those characters in movies is indisputable evidence that they are going away from OT references in general (in the cinema, not TV). If this weren't the case, they wouldn't have moved the Obi and Boba ideas to Disney Plus. Solo (and TROS for that matter) was a learning experience that they are not going to be able to lean on the OT and expect returns solely because of the OT factor.
     
  21. UK Sullustian

    UK Sullustian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1998
    People didn't want to see someone else be Han Solo. That is inexorably linked with Harrison Ford. If Ford had done an "old Solo" movie instead of being murdered in TFA, then it would have done good box office.

    Solo failed because it wasn't linked *enough*. Imagine a Deepfake Solo!
     
  22. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    People are dumb.
     
  23. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Screaming Service / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Well, yes. That post nicely fits into nearly every discussion about any topic pertaining to life on earth.

    Also, the stars, thanks to Space Force.
     
  24. PymParticles

    PymParticles Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    I'd rather not, because it's frankly a little stomach-churning.

    There are a multitude of reasons why Solo was unsuccessful at the box office, and I don't think a single one was it not being linked enough to the other films. I mean, one of the most frequent criticisms of the movie was that it wasn't fresh enough, and relied too much on fan service and exploring the nooks and crannies of dialogue written forty years ago. If Star Wars just becomes a franchise of, "Look, we ghoulishly recreated Mark Hamill's appearance from 1985 and will now create eight films about motion-captured Han, Luke, and Leia!" it's not just going to become stagnant and die, but make people extremely uncomfortable in the process. That sounds like a lose-lose to me.

    Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, and Darth Vader are some of the absolute greatest and most iconic fictional characters created ni any medium, ever, at any point in human history. I'm not denying that. But a well dries up when you return to it too many times.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  25. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I kind of know what the poster meant. I think a Solo standalone film would have worked better with Harrison Ford as an older, more grizzled Han Solo, which could have had a more direct link with the ST, which could have helped open up that post ROTJ galaxy. A lot of 'could's'...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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