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Discussion Where does Star Wars go as an IP from here?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by 2Cleva, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I get that you're making the smiley face, but that semantics argument has been made by many, including Filoni. Ahsoka is a Jedi. A Jedi is a life path, not a membership.
    No, he's just a toddler. He wouldn't even be a padawan. He'd be a youngling. With someone that ages as slowly as his species, the usual process of training would be different. He'd go through several masters before he reached adulthood, but he wouldn't be a Jedi until he could fend for himself, at the very least.
     
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  2. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    I see your point but I don't believe the perspective of die-hard SW fans is enough to move that needle. Not that many of us (and anyone posting on a SW board is as die-hard as they come).

    The General Audience is where the money is at. The appeal there that can spread to licensing and merchandising. That's how Disney makes its money - not from BO.

    Like you said - we know of KOTOR or Thrawn but the average person watching Baby Yoda on Disney+ has no clue. Disney+ had nearly 87 million subscribers by end of year 1 when they expected 90 million in year 4. That popularity is of course partially due to pandemic but a lot to do with Baby Yoda. And I highly doubt most of them know that level of SW detail.

    I look at SW from the business side first. From outside we can only guess where the story goes but the business plan is pretty typical. The ST wasn't typical but we didn't know that. If it was clear from the start that they were going in without a plan and each director doing their own thing - most of us would have expected TROS to be what it was before TFA even came out. A lot of decisions made in the ST was bad for business and it's no longer controversial to say Disney agrees with that too.

    I think its a great ideal that the story drives all but that's not the reality of businesses, especially as big as Disney. Once they find a formula they stick to it.

    This is tongue in cheek but on point as usual - Disney gonna feed us cake.

     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  3. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Yep, except some were were expecting JJ to avoid Reylo, make Rey a Skywalker by blood, make Luke come back to life, etc. Did anything of that happen?

    So not sure what is the point in expecting new authors will come and adapt an already told story so it fits your preferences, when the track record of your expectations on this regard is so poor.
     
  4. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    With respect, I think Filoni might be right. There is an abundance of literature and material across canon and legends that describe the Jedi and Jedi Order as a quasi-religious-martial organisation, with recruits, ranked members, and ex-members who have either left or have been expelled. I think then that "ex-Jedi" (and not a Dark Sider) could actually be a thing.
     
    DarthPhilosopher likes this.
  5. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Attacking posters instead of replying to points of posts isn't a good look.

    Criticizing predictions when even JJ didn't finish the story until pre-production and reports of Disney changing things from what JJ had is funny to me.

    As far as my point - I've made it clearly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  6. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2019
    Jedi isn't a race. It's a creed. :boba:

    But seriously, I don't think once someone becomes a Jedi, they are a Jedi forever even if they lead the Order. Tarkin and Motti both refer to the Jedi way as a religion and in real life people can leave religions. It's right there in the dialogue:

    Mace Windu: "You know, m'lady, that Count Dooku was once a Jedi."

    Ahsoka Tano: "I'm no Jedi!"

    etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  7. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    That is how I understand it. Jedi Master Eeth Koth is removed from the Council and subsequently leaves the Jedi order / Jedi ways in the Darth Vader comics by Charles Soule.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  8. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    I like the rephrasing of it in the Mandalorian:

    That screamed to me - whatever you want to call it - it is what it is.

    Side note - I would like to see more Force users who aren't Jedi/Sith - but that seems like a topic for another thread.
     
  9. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    He's not right. He made that argument to get around Yoda's line "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be", because he didn't want to kill her off. He was trying to play a semantics game, because ironically, he's too attached to his character.

    Being a Jedi is not a club one belongs to. It's a choice to live one's life by a code. To use the force and one's training to promote peace and justice. To champion the Light. Ahsoka has done nothing but do these things. She follows the code of the Jedi, has the training of the Jedi, wears the garb of the Jedi, carries the weapon of the Jedi, walks the path of the Jedi. She is a Jedi. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

    Leaving the Order is not the same thing as not being a Jedi anymore. To not be Jedi she would have to stop living her life as one. Ahsoka has followed the path better than many of the council did. And certainly better than her master did.

    Also, her episode of The Mandalorian is titled "The Jedi".
     
  10. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    Ahsoka may live her life that way, but more as a kind of Ronin, or independent (which is how Filoni described her in the Vanity Fair interview he did)

    She left behind (and didn’t actually even become a Jedi within) the formal Jedi religion to which Jedi belong. Much like Catholics to the Catholic Church, other Christian type denominations don’t identify as Catholic just because they live similar devout lives and go to church.

    I don’t think it is semantics. Being a Jedi describes specifically being an adherent to that particular creed and organisation.

    Another example is Eeth Koth. In the Darth Vader comic series, he leaves behind the Jedi and the Jedi Order and becomes a priest in another religious organization altogether, the Church of the Ganthic Enlightenment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  11. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Well, as I've said, how she lives is all that matters. Jedi is as Jedi does. William Shakespeare already answered this for us centuries ago.

    ”What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet

    Meaning that it's the nature of a thing that defines it, not what it's called. I don't define a Jedi as "Someone the Jedi council says is a Jedi".
    She left the order, not the belief or life. Also, the Jedi council says she passed her "Great trial" when they invite her back, not that I put much stock in their judgement at that point. Nor did she. She left because she lost faith in the council, not because she didn't follow the teachings. She followed them better than they did.

    But, we've gotten off topic for too long. I'd be happy to continue if you feel like tagging me in a more appropriate thread.

     
  12. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    It’s all good. Nice talking with you. MTFBWY
     
  13. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2011
    To be fair to her detractors, I wouldn't say that she followed them better than the Council, but she could see that the Council wasn't all that wise to begin with or that there was something fundamentally wrong with them.

    That being said, there's also the "emotional" aspect of it all; many people seem to have this idea that Force-users or Jedi can "blunt" their emotions, but there's nothing in-canon really saying that. They may be used to dealing with them in some senses, but they're just as prone to emotional outbursts and impulsiveness as, well, the average Joe on Earth or in Star Wars. So the argument that "Ahsoka should've been less prone to emotionalism due to the Force like all Jedi" doesn't sit well with me because, in the actual canon at least, that's technically not what we're shown (I'm talking about the back then when the original episodes had aired and people were arguing back and forth on it).

    ^ lol I'm rambling but this convo got me thinking about this stuff again (after a long time, mind you). Don't mean to derail or anything. Let's get back to the topic at hand, I suppose.

    :)
     
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  14. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
  15. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002


    [​IMG]


    The source article from OC Register has even more details:

    https://www.ocregister.com/2021/02/...to-a-star-wars-rebel-base-in-downtown-disney/
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  16. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I definitely agree that Galaxy's edge should be more open to all SW, and not just one brief time period. They should have PT, OT, ST, and MANDO content. And they should have characters from any and all time periods.
     
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  17. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Sorry was just giving you the heads up as per below -

     
  18. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    LOL. That store is representing a move away from the ST focus of GE. Before the F&F SW-verse has its event, I bet GE will be fully away from the ST timeline outside of the Rise of the Resistance ride.
     
  19. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    There is no F&F SW-verse. It’s just Star Wars, all one timeline and canon.

    You’re whole argument has been Disney and LFL want to move away from the ST. Time and time again we provide evidence to the contrary - setting Rogue Squadron post ST, selling out of brand new ST funko pops, setting the holiday special in the ST, creating restaurants with an ST theme and all you can do is be snarky and deflect.

    By all means continue to deflect but don’t expect to be taken seriously.
     
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  20. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    You crack me up. I'll save that with the D&D and RJ trilogies are definitely coming takes.

    Nothing to deflect. We all see what's happening and where the money is going.

    This is the Way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  21. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Thank you for proving my point so succinctly. Glad I could provide a laugh I guess.
     
  22. Jedi Historian

    Jedi Historian Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    *sigh* This argument has surely run its course, no? The collection of silo echo chambers that is the internet has ensured that the entrenched positions on either side of this debate will never see the other's position as legitimate, or even real. Which is a shame. I am firmly on the pro-ST side, but it pains me that I am forced to "take sides" at all. It often makes these boards unpleasant. The notions promulgated here and elsewhere that "Mando good, ST bad," and "F&F amazing, KK evil," are so reductive. When I was a kid, I didn't like JarJar or the fart jokes that infiltrated the PT, but I still loved those movies desperately. It was Star Wars! NEW Star Wars!!! Now, I'm not advocating a complete suspension of critical faculties--Star Wars is a popular art form, and therefore open to critique like any other cultural expression. But, c'mon--it's not black and white! The new films and TV shows--just like the older ones--have things to recommend them, elements that are not so great, and everything in between. So why the need to absolutely disavow elements of the franchise we don't like? And denigrate those fans who take a position contrary to our own? As I said, it's a shame. And it breeds negativity and contempt. Why not simply revel in this time--such a great time to be a fan!! There's literally something for every taste.
     
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  23. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Go back to the very beginning of the Jedi Order.....the Prime Jedi. What was his story like before becoming a Jedi, why become a Jedi? Were the Jedi the 1st force faction?
     
  24. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    According to c.1974/75 Lucas, the first jedi were grandchildren: they were preceded by 'the Holy man named Skywaker' and his 12 sons. Maybe he had the 12 tribes of Israel on his mind, with the holy man as Jacob, who was called Israel after wrestling with an angel, or maybe with God himself, and holding his own against them as it were. (The jedi council had 12 seats, and Luke had a dozen students, and there are 11 jedi voices+Leia at the end)

    As for the 'prime jedi'...'prime' means first, but also 'most powerful'. That's Satan.

    Thirteen is a prime number. And bad luck, or so they say.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
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  25. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Apologies for jumping in...

    Has 12 not been the number of a council or quorum since biblical times? The most famous 12 being Jesus' loyal disciples and the 13th being his betrayer, Judas and where we get 13 being bad luck.