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where were K'Kruhk and T'ra Saa all this time?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Senator_Cilghal, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    We're not talking about messing up a time period, we're talking about messing up a story?and a damn good one at that?intentionally and completely arbitrarily. I can't think of a single story that states Whiphids only live for eighty years, but I can think of one that says Pernicar didn't die in a supply convoy ambush. :rolleyes:

    "More presentable"? [face_laugh]

    So completely altering the order and causal chain of historic events is less objectionable than saying "this species actually lives longer than we thought"?

    LOL! "Smashing into walls for no good reason other than to satisfy some whim of a story" is pretty much the definition of POD.

    ROT was much less offensive from a continuity standpoint, but it still managed to completely steamroll over 50% of the only two sources it had to take into account.
     
  2. jfostrander01

    jfostrander01 Writer: Dawn of the Jedi, Agent of the Empire star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2001
    As I've said before. . .

    We keep away from the characters currently being used in the novels (or in that time frame) BY CHOICE. If Lowie or any other of that era's characters show up in LEGACY, it means they SURVIVED whatever is currently going on or planned for the next series of novels. That COMPROMISES what the other authors can or will do. We try not to do that.

    At the time we determined to use K'Kruhk and T'ra, we knew of no age range given for Whupids. We simply wanted to use older Jedi that would have no influence on the novels. Both characters started in DH comics so we felt safe in using them. Both were out of touch with the Jedi or the rest of the galaxy. Neither Yoda nor Luke could be expected to know of them nor sense them if they were not acting as Jedi. The galaxy is still a big place and there are plenty of places that might have heard NOTHING of what was going on in he rest of the galaxy. At some point, we'll tell what happened with K'Kruhk and T'ra when it becomes an important point to the ongoing story. Right now, it isn't.
     
  3. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Presumably they have access to the Holocron like any other SW writer.
     
  4. Trip

    Trip Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    How on earth is this remotely major? If I hadn't posted about it, you'd have had no idea anything was changed. Hell, if I hadn't gone and looked up Whiphids in the Ultimate Alien Anthology (which is also out of print lollers) I wouldn't have had any idea.
     
  5. DarthUr

    DarthUr Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I actually have a feeling that unlike the devoted fans who fill Wookieepedia with trivia, Leland Chee probably doesn't bother to put every tiny bit of minutiae into the Holocron, like a single line about a species' lifespan from an out-of-print book.
     
  6. Jmacq1

    Jmacq1 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    I'd also note the absurdity of the "I don't like retcons that only exist to serve the whims of a story" argument.

    What the kriff are retcons SUPPOSED to serve, then? The only reason they exist is to serve the needs of the story!

    You'd prefer they just kinda randomly comb through the Holocron and randomly change stuff with no impetus at all? Yeah, that sounds like a winner of an idea.....
     
  7. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Hehe, that'd just be funny in general.

    "Vader is colored in pink now."

    "What?"

    "JUST DO IT."

     
  8. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003
    I understand, but I still disagree with their use. I have no connection with those two. And... I'm sorry, but I highly doubt neither of them would not know what was going on in the GFFA at large.

    I also don't see how it'd compromise anything, but would create a bridge, a generational bridge between the series.

    Again, I love Legacy, but having those two in it is something I disagree with.
     
  9. Xicer

    Xicer Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2008
    It would compromise the character because it would lock his fate into place. The writers of any current series wouldn't be able to do anything they want with the character or they risk screwing with the continuity. I'd rather have a good story about Lowie where I have no idea what happens to him beforehand, rather than getting a story that would only be written so that it connects with his appearance in Legacy. Same goes for any other post-LOTF. Its not only courteous to the writers but to the character itself. Its better to not know the ending when you're only halfway through the story.

    I'm sure the writers at DR haven't mapped out the complete futures of every post-LOTF character so once a character from that era is thrown into Legacy the writers lose some of the freedom they have when it comes to that character's future. What if a writer has different plans for that character than John/Jan? Well once that character is put into Legacy their plans get thrown out the window. That's why I'm glad John/Jan didn't use any current characters (other than Luke which I can understand).
     
  10. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003
    If Lowie or Raynar or any of them showed up, the only thing 'locked' into place would be that they're alive, which to be blunt, would be a damned comfort to me. And it'd open a whole lot of questions. How'd he get to where he is now? What sort of adventures did he have?

    I want something of Luke's to survive to Legacy! Some vestige of his teachings and his students. And considering Lowie... the guy's been wallpaper since the NJO.
     
  11. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    ...You mean, something Luke created besides the Jedi Order existing at all at this point in galactic history? How about the galaxy still being relatively recognizable and not a) a Dark Empire where everyone in it exists solely to keep Palpatine immortal or b) a Yuuzhan Vong Empire where all the original sentient species have been either mutated beyond recognition or sacrificed to the gods?

    Even though it's already been said about a billion times in this forum, it's worth repeating: Luke Skywalker saved the galaxy multiple times. No one else is even close. No one else ever will be.

    The forces Luke fought and defeated make Cade's current issues look minor by comparison.
     
  12. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    =D= Nice work, Boba.

    I do find this....tendency..of some EU fans to look beyond a story to kill the suspense of it quite odd. For example when I first read TTT, I did so having just read DE so I knew Thrawn lost so guess that story is all over before it starts, right? No, not if you take the story for what it is: Thrawn's assault on the NR. It's well done so it draws you in sufficiently so that you forget the future history, which in turn makes the story very entertaining.

    People enjoyed the PT and the stories that grew around it like the Clone Wars despite knowing it was all going to end badly, so is knowing that character X is alive so many years hence really that big an issue? We knew ObiWan couldn't be killed in the PT, it didn't stop Lucas putting him through the wringer and inflicting arguably a fate worse than death upon him: Watch your former protege wreck the galaxy for 20 years.

    I can well appreciate John's outlook of the matter being a professional courtesy, but there are other arrangements that could be explored e.g. Zahn and Stackpole shared characters so avoiding the compromise problem John wishes to avoid. Something like that would likely be needed if Legacy introduced an older Jedi who had been taught by Luke because the fans would then be asking for his earlier story.
     
  13. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Thanks.

    The level of making mountains out of molehills around this place just astounds me some days. :p
     
  14. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Okay, I'll be blunt. I want some of the NR Jedi to pop up. I don't like K'Kruhk, T'ra Saa or almost any other prequel Jedi. Dammit, I got in with Tionne and Kam and Tenel Ka and Kyle and all of them! Now those failures from the prequels are showing up, alive and semi-well and Kyle's probably dust and bone chips?

    Yeah, I know Luke saved the galaxy several dozen times, but I wanna know about the other Jedi. And I wanna see them, too.
     
  15. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Never mind.
     
  16. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Jul 2, 2003
    Except for those two, I actually do like the comic. A lot, as I've indicated. But it still sticks that they're there. Trust me, the goods far outweigh the bads with Legacy.
     
  17. DarthAdamentum

    DarthAdamentum Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2008
    I wana know what happened to Kyp Durron in the end. did he become a Sith Lord or marry Jaina... food for thoughts...
     
  18. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Then calm down and enjoy em. :p

     
  19. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003
    *Sigh* I do enjoy them, but it's not gonna stop me from voicing my opinion on what I don't like about them, especially if there's chance one it can be changed at all.
     
  20. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001

    RK_Striker_JK_5 : I understand, but I still disagree with their use. I have no connection with those two. I don't like K'Kruhk, T'ra Saa or almost any other prequel Jedi. I want some of the NR Jedi to pop up. I also don't see how it'd compromise anything, but would create a bridge, a generational bridge between the series.

    If Lowie or Raynar or any of them showed up, the only thing 'locked' into place would be that they're alive, which to be blunt, would be a damned comfort to me. And it'd open a whole lot of questions. How'd he get to where he is now? What sort of adventures did he have?

    I want something of Luke's to survive to Legacy! Some vestige of his teachings and his students.


    I completely agree. Having prequel Jedi in Legacy really grates like fingernails on a chalkboard. It seems unnatural and wrong that they would be alive. They weren't young during the prequel era, yet 137 years later, they're still around and running the show (heading the Jedi Council) while Luke and all of his Jedi, plus all of THEIR children are long dead. It's VERY unsatisfying. As you said, Striker, it would be comforting to find characters from Luke's era or who were taught by Luke or one of his students to be present and active in the Legacy era. Instead, it's like Luke's Order never existed at all and the Jedi are back to Prequel era leadership and traditions. I too would like to see "...something of Luke's survive to Legacy, some vestige of his teachings and his students."

    I think especially since Cade is such a huge disappointment, it would be great to see some Jedi of Luke's Order who act like true Jedi.

    I especially find it annoying to have prequel Jedi in leadership positions in Legacy when they never helped Luke when he needed assistance. They let him struggle to restore the Order alone and then show up to take over the Jedi when Luke is gone. :(



    Jedi Ben : is knowing that character X is alive so many years hence really that big an issue?

    No, I really don't think it is. In fact, it makes "character X" that much more interesting. The readers would want to know how and why that character got from FotJ to Legacy and what adventures he/she had along the way. As you said, we knew that Obi-wan would survive the PT, but it didn't make his story any less interesting or gut-wrenching. I don't understand this whole idea that a story or a character can't be exciting or intriguing if we know he/she will survive.

    I can well appreciate John's outlook of the matter being a professional courtesy, but there are other arrangements that could be explored e.g. Zahn and Stackpole shared characters so avoiding the compromise problem John wishes to avoid. Something like that would likely be needed if Legacy introduced an older Jedi who had been taught by Luke because the fans would then be asking for his earlier story.

    Right! I think that would make said character MORE interesting and popular rather than less so.


     
  21. jfostrander01

    jfostrander01 Writer: Dawn of the Jedi, Agent of the Empire star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2001
    I appreciate everyone's feelings about the NJO characters. I like them, too. If the folks at the novel end said they had no more interest in x character, I'd be up for using them. But we have our reasons for not doing so, which I've stated. You may disagree with those reasons but that they still stand. Since the Jedi are scattered, you can tell yourselves that some of them are out there and we just haven't seen them. Our stories in LEGACY haven't taken us there.

    -- John
     
  22. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I'm going to go out of my way and highlight that I'm fine with this - it's a sensible issue, not to put Lowie in Legacy, and if you can't have those familiar faces, some others from elsewhere was a good compromise.

    Keep up the good work, all of you at Legacy, I know you'll get around to all of our concerns sooner or later, and I'd prefer you to do so at your own pace than ours. [face_peace]
     
  23. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Well, can't you just ask them if it's possible? Lowie's furry wallpaper at this point. Less than that.
     
  24. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    I'll second the "I don't have a problem with this at all." K'Kruhk is an awesome character, and I hope to see more of him. If needed, I'm sure they could come up with dozens of reasons why he wasn't around previously. But it's all part of the mystery of Legacy. Still a lot we don't know. That's part of what makes it great (besides the great writing and artwork in general). We get to discover new things about this universe with every issue.

    And as for universe consistency, so not an issue for me. Even with series penned by a single author (I'm thinking of Asimov's and Orson Scott Card's works, among others). There are always inevitable continuity mistakes. Just too much to keep track of.

    But I never let that get in the way of me enjoying a good yarn.
     
  25. Darth_Lex

    Darth_Lex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2002
    For what it's worth, I don't disagree with those reasons - at all. They make perfect sense to me, and I think it's created much better storytelling to keep Legacy developing organically rather than including gratuitous fan-service connections to earlier eras. Much as I personally would like actual confirmation, not just implication, about Roan's and Sia's ancestry O:) [face_whistling] I know we'll get it when it serves the Legacy story. I'm much more interested in the ongoing Legacy storyline than in finding out all the possible connections to the past. The hints we have - Kol's Council role, the Ossus project, a Jedi on the GA triumvirate - tell me enough about what kind of legacy Luke bestowed to the Jedi Order. :cool:

    We might wish all the material was more integrated, but the reality is that cross-media characters (like Lumiya in LOTF or Ventress in the Clone Wars cartoons and new series) are still pretty rare. Besides, it makes sense. Longtime SW comics readers are going to be excited to see K'Kruhk again, but they may not even know who Lowie is; just as many longtime SW novel readers would have no idea who K'Kruhk was if he appeared in FOTJ. So I also don't have any problem with comics drawing more heavily on comics characters, just as the novels draw more heavily on novel characters. [face_peace]
     
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