Which do you think is better: Alien or Aliens?

DJK edit: That's not necessary.

 

I liked Aliens better but it is because Alien made it good. Cameron did not lose the suspense. That suspense was built in and he was able to maintain it unlike the 3rd and 4th films. Add the action and what has become a scifi standby in space marines which are played so well by the actors and you get a movie I come back to more often than the first film.

 

It was one of my favourites as a kid too but come on, read a book about it sometime!

Marines turn up to backwater planet, discover honest hard working citizens have been turned into the enemy, blow **** up, destroy...what...everything(?) with their amazing technological prowess in an effort to weed out the enemy (previously outside but now within) and ultimately fail even after unleashing all-or-nothing nuclear self destruct hell on the colony. Sounds like the American century to me.

" Yeah, Aliens was about as anti-Imperialism as you could get."

So was Rambo 3.
Oh***wait...

"I'd also love to know what separates American imperialism from, say British imperialism, since last I checked imperialism wasn't restricted to one culture, or did I imagine Britain's claims of an empire where the sun never sets?"

American Imperialism as perpetrated by Americans on film (cite: Aliens)
English Imperialism as perpetrated by the British on film (cite: Zulu)
Start a Zulu discussion thread and we'll talk.

 

Aliens gets more views from me. However, both are good films. Alien works well as a horror film while Aliens works good as an suspense/action film.

 

The whole notion of "marines showing up and blowing everything to hell" is a very loose overview of the plot, not subtext. Yes, real-life U.S. intervention/occupation as it relates to foreign countries can be seen to parallel the plot of Aliens, but it certainly seems to me that a subtextual reading goes beyond obvious parallels in an attempt to find a narrative's deeper message. In this regard, Aliens may bring to mind American imperialism in terms of blatant imagery and atmosphere, but given the nature of the surviving characters that I addressed in my previous post, I don't see how any serious consideration of the film can say that Cameron is advocating American Imperialism. To me, that's like someone saying Apocalypse Now is a pro-war propaganda piece simply because it portrays Americans at war (which any first year film student will tell you is just plain ridiculous).

 

"In this regard, Aliens may bring to mind American imperialism in terms of blatant imagery and atmosphere..."

So imagery and atmosphere aren't enough to engender appropriate response in an audience?
Que?

"...but given the nature of the surviving characters that I addressed in my previous post, I don't see how any serious consideration of the film can say that Cameron is advocating American Imperialism."

I don't think an audience analysed the plight of survivors to quite that degree you think they might have and I don't think they spent much time looking for meaning in what's essentially a war/action film because imo there isn't much meaning there to get. I'd say they were, quite fairly, caught up the guns and heroic sacrifice and militaristic sentiment of technological dominance to really speculate on how the "innocents" were the only survivors. I agree that Cameron didn't set out to create an American Imperialist/propagandist picture but I also don't think anyone can deny that he made a film utterly saturated with feeling of the day ie: US imperialism.

 

How the Hell does anyone get American Imperialism from ALIENS? For the love of everything holy!!!!! It's a great sci-fi movie w/great action, suspense, characters, and VFX. Can't it just be left at that please? I'm so sick of politics and anti-American rhetoric.

 

A viewer can respond to whatever they choose, of course. I just feel that atmosphere and/or storytelling tropes do not equal overall meaning. For instance, much of American History X deals with the depiction of terrible hate crimes, but obviously this film relies on those depictions as a means of providing an anti-hate message. Granted, Aliens is first and foremost entertainment, while American History X aims to be a subversive drama. Despite this, though, I think Cameron did consciously craft his film in such a manner to indicate a deeper meaning dealing with the pitfalls of imperialism, corporate rule, and militarism as a tool to achieve these ends.

 

Cameron obviously id that, and that type of storytelling is a staple of the sci-fi genre, and that is one of the main reasons why it never gets its due when stacked up against "traditional" cinema. There wasn't any overall American imperialism at work in Aliens. There was the threat of it in the form of the company and its agent, but in the end they were beaten down and the only survivors were the working men in the Marines, the rebel of the company in the android, the outlaw in Ripley and the colonist in Newt. The imperialistic faction was beaten down and repelled and the film leaves you with the message that forcing your way of life onto these planets may not be the answer to expanding our people throughout the universe. Now, if someone lacks the basic ability to read within a film, then sure, rampant imperialism is what they will come away with, but I do have faith that most people can read into films to find out what they really mean (although in Aliens the subtext isn't all that sub, it's right there and easy to pick-up so there's no excuse for coming away with the "imperialism at its finest" way of thinking unless you had blinders on while watching the movie.)

 

Alien by far.

 

Can't remember where I saw it, but I remember reading someone say that Aliens was meant to be like Vietnam in Space. The Marines with all thier high tech being defeated by a primitive enemy they don't understand and who appears almost out of nowhere.

 

I don't see a need to digress into a political discussion over America, American imperialism or imperialism in general. If you want to debate politics, head over to the Senate. This thread is for discussing the films only.

 

Um, as much as I may not disagree with his take, this is honestly one of the main things that film discussion is about. Dissecting a film and finding a meaning and then putting that meaning forth and seeing if it flies with other people. Political undertones, etc. are all valid points to make in regards to a film. So to be honest if you want this kind of talk removed then why even bother talking about movies in the first place since it seems like you want to ignore deeper side of films.

 

"Marines turn up to backwater planet, discover honest hard working citizens have been turned into the enemy, blow **** up, destroy...what...everything(?) with their amazing technological prowess in an effort to weed out the enemy (previously outside but now within) and ultimately fail even after unleashing all-or-nothing nuclear self destruct hell on the colony. Sounds like the American century to me."

First off, Aliens just reinforces the idea that a technologically advanced society doesn't always have the edge when combating a so-called inferior race... Much like the Battle of Endor in ROTJ...

Watch a commentary...

Your interpretation of something doesn't make it fact.

D_M_S_L

 

I think Alien is the better film but I prefer Aliens myself

 

I don't think it even goes that far. I mean, doesn't Bilbo say something in the first movie to the effect that the xenos are genetically superior to humans?

 

yeah, genetically, not technologically... And he was speaking as a Company Representative at the time. He would've said anything to convince Dallas & crew to try and capture it alive...

D_M_S_L

 

"First off, Aliens just reinforces the idea that a technologically advanced society doesn't always have the edge when combating a so-called inferior race... Much like the Battle of Endor in ROTJ..."

And yet Ripley can only destroy the Queen by using the heavy lifting exoskeleton.
In both cases humanity triumphs through technology.

 

D_M_S_L and DA, this back and forth stops now.

That's a fair point, but we're not going to drag this thread into a political discussion as the tone earlier seemed to suggest. If you want to tie in the aforementioned topics to your analysis of the film, that's fine. But we're not getting into a debate about imperialism in general.

 

Yeah, he pretty much called the Xenomorph the "perfect organism"..

 

Besides being biologically superior The Aliens or at least the Queen are supposed to be pretty smart. Thats one theory as to while she built her nest in the atmosphere processor besides the heat it was the one place in the colony where they couldn't blow her up without destroying the entire colony.

 

The xenos are smarter than most folks think they are.

 

"D_M_S_L and DA, this back and forth stops now."

With all due respect, the conversation taking place is one that has to do with the subject at hand. Alien vs. Aliens. I think everyone here would agree that the subtext of each film can have a strong effect on the viewer. We are discussing this subtext, within a thread that was established for discussions of the sort. We are in disagreement, but it has not degenerated to flaming or baiting or anything negative, as it briefly had before. So I don't see the problem with the conversation at hand.

Are we to just keep our discussions at the shallow end of the pool?

I apologize, but I just don't see any legitimate reason why myself or DA are being singled out.

" And yet Ripley can only destroy the Queen by using the heavy lifting exoskeleton.
In both cases humanity triumphs through technology. "

Well, you got me there. However, desperate times call for desperate measures. It still doesn't back up your idea of American Imperialism throughout the flick. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Ripley is the epitome of anti-imperialism.

Trust me, I'm not tryin' to change your views, just broaden your horizons.

D_M_S_L

 

My post was directed at the point in the conversation that had digressed into some back and forth baiting/flaming between the two of you, that is why you were singled out. I have no problem with you guys debating, just keep it respectful.

 

Imperialism is good.