PT Who really won the Palpatine Mace duel?

Disney: Hold my beer in Rise of Skywalker

Sorry Mace fans but if the Death Star can’t kill Sidious then Mace has no chance.

I agree more with Ian than Flip Flop Lucas who went from saying Sidious is like a weakling like Grevious who runs away then says it takes only a Yoda or Mace powerful enough to compete with him huh??? WTF!! LOL Is he a weakling or a power house that it takes the top Jedi to compete with??? Huh Lucas??

Good thing Disney sees Sidious the powerhouse that he is making him obliterate Maul and his brother with ease to coming back from the dead in Rise of Skywalker.

If all of us do NOT pay attention to the dialogues before this staged duel then I can see how we would think Palpatine lost to Mace just like how Palpatine really got kidnapped by Grevious. Wink wink.

I wonder why no one ever question if Grevious REALLY kidnapped Palpatine??? It was never stated that he staged that on film or by Lucas BUT yet we all know it was staged.

Same thing with this STAGED duel. WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF HIS ENDGAME. It’s the final plan to Turn ANAkin and to frame the whole Jedi Order.

People always discard the fact that Anakin has turned his offer down before this and while having the Clones to execute order 66 ANY TIME BEFORE this....he couldn’t until this fake duel. Now he has the proof to the senate and Anakin about the evil Jedi. Palpatine has to lose.

 

Sidious threw it on purpose so Anakin would see Mace attacking a unarmed old man hence swaying him more to the beliefs that Sidious was right about the jedi it's that simple!

 

Interesting video. Just in the first two minutes Ian McDiarmid says that he thought he was dead forever, until GL asked him to come back for the prequels. And then he says "well I am dead forever", referring to the fact that the prequels are.... prequels. Well I guess that's not true anymore.

Regarding the topic itself, I have always believed that Darth Sidious threw the duel against Mace Windu. He could probably even sense Anakin approaching and all the worry, the fear and the rage within him, so he could time it perfectly.

So many gems in this interview. When asked about what it is that makes Star Wars so great, he says that it's always about the story. And about the messages. Ooooof.

 

Strange. I had read this book about "Revenge of the Sith" when it first came out. Even if Palpatine had threw the duel with Mace Windu, the book had stated that Yoda, Anakin and Mace were the only three powerful enough to hold their own with Palpatine in a lightsaber duel.

 

We'll probably be arguing about this until the end of time. Maybe it's better that way.

 

No one is doubting Yoda and Mace can’t compete with Sidious and even Anakin was suppose to have the potential to become more powerful than Sidious.

So no one is talking about power now. It’s the obvious foreshadowing before this that the Mace vs Palpatine was as staged as the Grevious vs Palpatine kidnapping.

Now if your talking about power from this Revenge of the Sith book....well your pretty much out of luck because since Disney bought out Lucas (Thank you Lord).... they are pretty much Team Sidious.

JJ Abrams also praises how powerful the Emperor is in an interview.

Him coming back from the dead in “The Rise of Skywalker” pretty much sealed all the Yoda and Mace fanboys fate on who is the Ultimate powerhouse force user.

Unless they bring back Mace Windu at the end of “The Rise of Skywalker” to take out Sidious then I’ll be eating humble pie. Lol

But as of now....They are pretty much setting up “Mary Sue” Rey as the most powerful millennial hero by BEATING the most powerful Force User of the SW movieverse.

 

Apparently, this debate is still happening, so I came to shut it down for good.

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor, if Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."
- George Lucas on who could compete with Darth Sidious during the time of the Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith.

So we know that Mace COULD HAVE beaten Darth Sidious.

The following quote, however, ends the debate for good:

"Okay, well, this sequence uh always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand."
- George Lucas quote from the Revenge of the Sith movie commentary track

In closing:

 

That's what we're intended to see - because that's what Palpatine intends Anakin to see.

There's still plenty of room for

"Palpatine allowing Mace to overpower him, and then Palpatine using his powers to frighten Mace into thinking he's trying to destroy him."

 

No one is doubting Yoda and Mace can’t compete with Sidious and even Anakin was suppose to have the potential to become more powerful than Sidious.

So no one is talking about power now. It’s the obvious foreshadowing before this that the Mace vs Palpatine was as staged as the Grevious vs Palpatine kidnapping.

Now if your talking about what Lucas said...well your pretty much out of luck because since Disney bought out Lucas (Thank you Lord).... they are pretty much Team Sidious.

JJ Abrams also praises how powerful the Emperor is in an interview.

Him coming back from the dead in “The Riseof Skywalker” pretty much sealed all the Yoda and Mace fanboys fate on who is the Ultimate powerhouse force user.

Unless they bring back Mace Windu at the end of “The Rise of Skywalker” to take out Sidious then I’ll be eating humble pie. Lol

But as of now....They are pretty much settingup “Mary Sue” Rey as the most powerful millennial hero by BEATING the most powerful Force User of the SW movieverse.

And stop misquoting that quote....GL said Mace can COMPETE while Anakin could’ve defeated Sidious. Don’t replace Anakin with Mace.

Either way GL is moot because Disney has made Sidious all powerful since Clone Wars.

So Disney pretty much ended the debate...if Death Star core can’t kill Palpatine then Mace couldn’t have killed him either.

 

@Sidious69 first off JJ Abrams' words carry no weight here. This is George Lucas's story. JJ did not contribute to it.

Second off, the quote I provided literally has George saying that Mace OVERPOWERED Palpatine. There is no wiggle room there!

 

Like I said before Lucas is done!!

Disney has made all of what flip flop Lucas has said before OBSOLETE!

Sorry Mace fans but having The Emperor alive in The Rise of Skywalker has pretty much put the nail in the coffin on who is the most powerful.

I love it how all the Mace fans will NOW say Rise of Skywalker will not be canon.

Because it will be laughable on how someone like Sidious who obliterated Maul and his brother with ease who can then survive an exploding Death Star to having a half strength clone of himself ala Snoke (my theory) powerful enough to toy with Rey and Kylo....yet lose to an ALL MIGHTY KICK from Mace hahaha even though that lost just gave him the final evidence for a conflicted Anakin to finally turn to the Darkside and the valid reason to finally Execute Order 66.

But if you want to keep all hope depending on GL.....just keep the fact that Lucas was just describing the scene.

GL was describing the scene on the first act of ROTS saying "on the part where Grevious kidnapped Palpatine blah blah blah"...... Now are you saying ......."You see!!! Lucas said Grevious indeed kidnapped Palpatine!!" Of course NOT. But Lucas never said Palpatine was pretending to be kidnapped.

That fake kidnapping is as fake as Mace's fake duel.

But even with all those evidence, you still want to pin all hopes of what Lucas said.....well Lucas also said in the commentary that The Emperor is a weakling like Grevious hmmmmmm then he said it takes someone like Yoda and Mace to compete with him. To compete with a weakling???? Flip Flop Lucas much??

Can't wait next Friday so you Mace fanboys will see the true power of the Dark Side. Then you can say "This party is over"

I know at the end Rey will probably obliterate Sidious. Lol

 

I like the ambiguity in the scene as it is on screen.

In the few years immediately after the movie was released I was firmly in the “Palpatine was faking” camp, but more recently I’ve switched sides.

That business with Disney doesn’t, doesn’t count.

 

Rey better not beat him on her own single handedly

 

I don’t think there’s ambiguity at all.

Palpatine has been telling Anakin that the Jedi are the evil ones and that they are planning to destroy him. Anakin while wanting to save Padme still turned him down and reported him to the Jedi vowing to find the truth to all of this. Palpatine’s last word to him, “If the Jedi DESTROY me, any chance of saving her would be lost.”

Then Behold!!! Anakin walks in....not where Palpatine obliterated 3 Jedi Masters in seconds...but walked in where Mace the aggressor about to assassinate a harmless old man. Check mate!! Anakin finally turned. And Valid Reason to the Senate for Order 66.

And why would you not count that Disney business??? Like it or not they own SW now not Lucas.

And I like what they are doing with Sidious since the Disney’s Clone Wars all the way to him being alive in Disney’s Rise of Skywalker. They are building him up for Rey unfortunately.

And I have to eat humble pie also when they make Disney’s Rey the most powerful by making her defeat the old most powerful.

 

Totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, rumors has it that they are building Sidious up to make Rey the most powerful. The Captain Marvel of SW.

Again they are just rumors and have 3 different endings.

My hope is Anakin comes back too to help Rey. Next Friday can’t come any sooner.

 

So many things wrong in this post I don't even know where to begin.

Palpatine is a GEORGE. LUCAS. CHARACTER. Whatever nonsense Disney wants to spout off in their trilogy is high budget fan fiction is not relevant to an analysis of a scene in Revenge of the Sith. Disney's version of Palpatine is not the true version of the character.

Anakin killed Sidious, not the Death Star.

Lucas can flip flop all he wants and still be right. That's what happens when you create the universe and its rules. And he is actually remarkably consistent all things considered.

Disney didn't make Sidious beat Maul. TCW was Lucas's vision.

The kidnapping of Palpatine, we have yet to see. It's possible we could get it in Season 7 of TCW.

No, we don't all know it was staged. In fact, Lucas says the opposite. Mace "overpowered" Palpatine.

 

First, Palpatine WAS a Lucas character. You can't dismiss Disney's alteration. They basically are making what's canon and what's legends now.

Second, yeah Anakin had to sacrifice himself just to sucker punch Sidious. I mentioned the Death Star exploding because guess what Disney has even made Palpatine TO EVEN SURVIVE THAT LOL. If he can survive that...Mace’s Super Kick means nothing.
Your ONLY hope is for Disney to make Mace survive in ROTS just to beat Sidious in Rise of Skywalker. Good luck hahahaha

Third, So it was GL who made Sidious overpowered by obliterating Maul and his bro with ease. No complains here.

Lastly, you are saying GL can flip flop all he wants THen pay attention to his dialogues before this staged duel. It's called foreshadowing. Believing Mace beat Palpatine is as fanboyish as believing that Grevious actually kidnapped Palpatine.


I trust Ian and JJ more than senile GL because he said Emperor is a weakling like Grevious and then say Only the top Jedi can compete with him. So with your logic by GL's flip flopping... then Mace can compete with a weakling?? Yeah in Lucas we trust. Lol

Rise of Skywalker can't come here soon enough!!!

 

It doesn't really matter whether Palpatine threw the fight or not though, does it? If you let your opponent win, your opponent wins.

 

Lol

But he he didn't let Mace win though. He used him to finally turn Anakin and to frame the whole Jedi Order.

Unless your definition of winning is being obliterated by lightning falling to his death.

 

I can't? Watch me.

The Disney films aren't part of a coherent, unified whole with the original six Lucas films. This isn't meant as a judgment on their quality, nor am I denying that the Disney corporation has labelled them canon for marketing purposes. It's simply an an acknowledgment of a pretty self-evident aesthetic reality.

If you wish to analyze the question at issue through the lens of the appended Disney canon, I certainly can't stop you. But analyzing it through a lens which excludes anything but the original source material is also perfectly legitimate.

No one would get upset if this were an analysis of J.R.R. Tolkien's writings and someone said they preferred to set Peter Jackson's film adaptations aside. The logic of doing so would (hopefully) be perfectly obvious.

 

Mace did win the duel and Palpatine did feign weakness and use the circumstances to help turn Anakin and frame the Jedi. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

But the whole duel was staged.

Calling this an actual duel is like calling Palpatine's kidnapping an actual kidnapping.

So yeah Mace won the duel as much as Dooku held Palpatine captive chained to his chair.

 

It all comes down to the saber disarm.

Did Palpatine sense Anakin's proximity, and thus let Mace disarm him, allowing him to "win the duel" because it would play right into his plans for turning Anakin, as well as for presenting just cause to the Senate to accept his destruction of the Jedi Order (Mace's attempt to kill an unarmed Palpatine) or not?

 

Palpatine was in control of those involved with the kidnapping. The same can't be said of those he faced in the duel. He was only in control of his own skill and of Anakin's emotions, and even that wasn't a certainty.

The duel wasn't staged, it was expected. Him getting beaten wasn't expected. Him pretending to be weak to Mace and Anakin at the very end was staged.

He still tried to kill Mace in front of Anakin with the lightning, so he didn't allow anyone to disarm him. He tried to kill Mace (just like he killed the other Jedi) and had he won the duel he would claim that it was self defense against an assassination attempt. And Anakin would buy it all the same because he needed Palpatine's (alleged) knowledge.