PT Who really won the Palpatine Mace duel?

It would require a certain amount of precision, to generate just enough lightning to provoke Mace into changing from "arrest" to "kill" while not generating enough lightning to send Mace flying out the window.

That is, assuming that Palpatine has a "lightning strength setting" available, significantly higher than the one he uses on Mace - which he chooses not to use.

 

@Dandy

It was obviously clear that GL made Palpatine fight 4 Jedi Masters with ease obliterating 3 of them in mere seconds while Mace couldn’t land a single blow.

That alone is a wide power discrepancy. If anyone can compete with someone and give him 3 more fire power then that 4-1 advantage can easily subdue that one person. BUT GL clearly showed how powerful Palpatine is ….ONLY to lose which coincidentally helped his cause at the end.

It was also clear that Anakin landing and arriving was intercut with how Palpatine loses all his speed and agility that Mace couldn’t match when he had a 4-1 advantage.

Again, yes Ian is just an actor BUT he was asked directly about this while GL WAS NOT.

When asked about who won, GL is keeping quiet.

The only thing Mace fans used was what GL said on the commentary. Which was just plainly describing a scene.

It’s like IF Snyder describing a scene in Man Of Steel where the bully OVERPOWERED Clark. That doesn’t mean that the bully and Doomsday are the only ones that can defeat Superman.
Context is everything.

 

His Force lightning sent Yoda flying across the room and only briefly knocked him out. On the other hand, the lightning didn't do that to Luke, but did seem to be set at a lower, but still excruciating level to torture him in ROTJ.

 

Exactly.

There’s a big difference between the lightning he used to piss off Mace, the lightning he used to KO Yoda, and the lightning he used against Rey which ultimately killed him.

 

We know there's definitely a difference in the power of lighting between various Sith.

When Dooku tried using it on Yoda, he barely flinched and basically deflected it.
When Palpatine used it on Yoda, Yoda was sent flying (against the wall) and was eventually overwhelmed in the Senate chamber, being knocked off the Senate pod.

 

And similar principles apply to fighting skill - it can be "dialled up" or "dialled down".

Just as, in training, a great fighter who is sparring with a lesser one, can choose not to "fight at full strength" so the trainee actually learns, sees the moves in action, gets to hone their own skills, instead of being very rapidly defeated every time.

Palpatine's using the exact same techniques - only here, it's Mace, who he's "sparring" with (Mace fighting to his full strength, but Palpatine dialling it down, to draw the fight out till Anakin arrives.)

We see in the OT that a Force user can sense the proximity of another Force user from a long way away, especially in ROTJ. Luke, on Endor, in the Ewok village, can sense that Vader has come down to the Forest Moon, despite him being way away at the landing pad near the shield generator.

Palpatine does the same with Anakin - sensing his proximity as he approaches the building, long before he actually enters the room - and timing his "leave an opening for Mace to exploit" exactly right.

 

You do realize that the guy who put this scene together said that Mace won, right?

I know GL lies a lot, but I don't see any reason why he would try to spin the victor of this duel in the commentary of his own movie.

 

Whether Mace won the “duel” part or not Sidious knew Anakin was coming.

In the novelisation Mace comments that Palpatine has lost to his own fear and Palpatine retorts “Fool! You think the fear you feel is mine?”

Palpatine is completely confident. As is Mace - “I am going to end this once and for all!”

Only the chosen one is uncertain.
Palpatine can sense his fear from a great distance.

Yet Mace’s confidence is proven misplaced.

 

way to completely dodge @FightoftheForgotten 's undeniable fact

 

Lucas says "...this sequence always started with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber..."

Sounds to me like a stalemate, ultimately. Mace kicked him down, likely stunned him momentarily, but the fight wasn't over. I think the point is that neither Mace nor Palpatine have control of the outcome here, and only Anakin can decide the fate of which direction the galaxy will go.

 

BINGO

that's what we are saying:

we didn't see a different movie where Mace impales him to death, or a movie where Palpatine gives up and is led away in cuffs.

We are acknowledging that Mace wasn't a complete goof ball the whole time, which some (for some inexplicable reason) want.

 

I personally never argued against this.

 

right, ok, when did I say you did?

 

Or...he's been laughing his butt off over all of us still debating this 17 years going.

 

He left the end of the fight open for interpretation and it worked. The right answer is the one you choose it to be.

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Lol

no way Lucas intended this scene to be open to interpretation to movies like Inception.

He failed on showing whatever he intended on scene and that is why he is keeping his mouth shut whenever anyone asks him about it so he can have his own Nolan like CREATIVITY MOMENT.

Pretending ummmm yeah that is what I meant with this scene….ummm…you know to be open to ummm interpretation.

Hahaha you wish Lucas!!

 

he didn’t leave it open to interpretation. He’s just not making movies for idiots who miss the point

 

Palpatine won as he went on to rule the galaxy for the next 25 years pretty much and beyond if you count the sequel trilogy which i dont lol

 

I think if Mace was winking it makes the story even better. It makes it more tragic

 

eh?

is that supposed to be 'winning'?

 

If Yoda would have been there with Mace and the 3 Jedi Masters, the story would have ended with Episode III.

 

Yup exactly.

That is why Palpatine planned to have the most powerful Jedi off planet by invading Kasshyk and Anakin’s last thread of believing in the Jedi way in Obi-Wan off to Utapao.

Palpatine has been planning this since he became Chancellor getting to know the Jedi inside and out while he was among them.

 

I think Mace could have done it by himself. But yes no way Sidious could beat both Mace and Yoda even if Anakin intervenes

 

Actually Mace having 3 Jedi Masters on the Council as back up still couldn’t do anything says a lot that Mace couldn’t have done it himself.