PT Who really won the Palpatine Mace duel?

Actually ehen Palpatine sells the dark side to Anakin he doesn’t say greater, he says “If one is to ynderstand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic view of the Jedi.” Anakin even says, “I know there are things about the Force they are telling me.” Its about the allure of forbidden knowledge and what mysteries the Jedi reject.

Dooku is seduced over justice, Palpatine offers him that the dark side will allow him to bring justice to the corrupt Republic (Tales of the Jedi). The Jedi Code limits what is acceptable to accomplish justice.

 

None of which changes anything I wrote.

 

Doesn't that kind of make the tragedy pointless if he was gonna be a Sith anyway? I thought the whole point of the Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker was that none of this was supposed to happen, He had a choice. Even Palpatine said as much when he yelled, 'You must choose!'

As far as Rey goes, well, it's helpful when you have two sabers and a group of deceased Jedi spirits helping you.

 

I still like why Dooku left the Order in Legends...that it wasn't until after Qui-Gon, his former Padawan, had been killed.

 

I don’t believe it matters whether he was predestined to fall to the dark side or not. Just like you or me, he made decisions not knowing the outcome, whether he actually has free will or not is irrelevant.

 

Free will is irrelevant? Lord Vader says clearly he made the choice, “you didn’t destroy Anakin, I did, as I am going to destroy you.” (Kenobi, Final Episode). Free will matters, and its clear he exercised it when he saved Luke in ROTJ. The Sith says “its your destiny,” like you are being guided, yes The Force guides, but the individual makes a choice, “that everyday you will be a good man or not.” (Hospitaller, Kingdom of Heaven).

 

But from the perspective of the individual, having free will (in the sense that you can choose between multiple futures) and having your future be predestined appear the same. If Anakin was predestined to bring balance to the Force, that means the future was set in stone

 

I do not like predestination though, its more impactful if you choose to be a monster like Vader or stay in the Light.

I love this quote by Claudia Gray, “It matters which side we choose. Even if there will never be more light than darkness. Even if there can be no more joy in the galaxy than there is pain. For every action we undertake, for every word we speak, for every life we touch—it matters. I don’t turn toward the light because it means someday I’ll ‘win’ some sort of cosmic game. I turn toward it because it is the light.” (Master and Apprentice)

 

In other words, "heads I win. tails you lose"? How convenient.

I've lost track whether it was "George Lucas himself" or Nick Gillard that said the above quote.

 

And if you were a monster/became a monster and decided, on your own initiative, that you were wrong and sought to correct your mistakes.

The only thing that was predestined for Anakin was that he was to destroy the Sith, as he was the only one strong enough to do so. Whether he would do it right there with Mace Windu on that window, or twenty-four years later on the Death Star II, that was up in the air.

 

Quotes From Nick Gillard himself:

“Palpatine would have creamed Mace.”

“It took a really long time for Nick to figure out Sidious’ fighting style, and he has a style that’s constantly changing. His style is one in which you’ll NEVER GET THE BETTER OF HIM. It is ambiguous - he’ll fight LESS THAN YOU and draw you in; your a SUCKER IF you THINK you’re going to BETTER HIM.”

“Sidious abilities are BEYOND anything we’ve experienced.”
“Sidious is a master of every weapon and EVERY style.”

“Sidious is BETTER than Yoda in a way because he has the extra power of the dark side. His character is so shrouded that his fighting style should be shrouded as well. The Emperor is DEADLY DANGEROUS.”

And on that deleted extended fight choreography…he was Force Pushing Mace and looks like slicing Mace’s leg making Mace go down on his knee. Basically just toying with him until Anakin was in the building.

Like I said earlier, Palpatine going up against Mace with 3 others backing up Mace speaks volume that Palpatine is way above Mace.

Then coincidentally got overpowered the moment Anakin walked in. LOL cue the Political Facade;
“Anakin I told you it would come to this!! I was right!! The Jedi are taking over!!”

LOL Cmon now that is just SET UP 101

To disregard plot progression is to say:

Palpatine was setting up to frame the Jedi Order since the Opera Scene.

Then FORGOT about that plan and just decided to kill every Jedi who was trying to arrest him.

Then got overpowered ONLY to REMEMBER that he was trying to frame the Jedi in the first place.

Silly Palpatine LOL

 

Facinating. All those quotes are how we see Palpatine continue to fight on The Clone Wars. He reigns that it is a possible competition. But his where is upon us in the end, never stood a chance.

 

This thread is still a thing?

Palpatine won because he feigned injury and he tricked Anakin into betraying Mace.
End of story.

Apologies, I shall take my leave.

 

Yup it is that simple.

The problem is that we have to ignore all dialogues and events before and after this duel because Mace is the greatest and most powerful God Like Jedi ever!! (Literally mentioned by no one in the films)

 

I always thought it was pretty clear that Palpatine intentionally put himself in a weakened position when he sensed Anakin’s arrival. After all, his overconfidence in Return of the Jedi stems from the fact that until then he always knows how things will play out, and everything about Anakin’s turn was quite premeditated.

 

Anakin won the duel. His intervention stopped Mace from becoming a Sith in spirit, and allowed Palpatine to get the upper hand, it was his action that won the duel.

 

Well both interpretations are valid Palpatine could have defeated Mace shortly after defeating Kit Fisto but he cant and with another perspective Palpatine recovered his energy just at the moment when Anakin cut off Mace Hand

 

Not to weigh in on the bigger argument, but regarding the bolded; Palpatine was never out of energy.

 

Yup it’s very clear.

As long as you watched the whole movie, the whole PT and the whole CT and NOT just this scene.

It’s pretty laughable if we do this with any other scene. But yet the Mace fans just want to disregard what happened BEFORE AND AFTER this FAKE DUEL.

In all the movies, Mace was NEVER mentioned to be the top Jedi nor the word Vapaad at all.

Sure you can go with outside movies Lightsaber Forms and say Gillard said Mace is the master of Form 6 Vapaad but then Gillard also said Sidious is the Master OF ALL lightsaber forms and also said he could have destroyed Mace.

What is shown in the movie however was Palpatine’s planning to FRAME the Jedi throughout the movie and Anakin even with the power to save Padme STILL did not join him…UNTIL Palpatine showed him the hypocrisy of the righteous Jedi making all those dialogues Palpatine HAS BEEN SAYING COME TRUE. It’s NOT rocket science.

That’s basically just analyzing when Vader told Luke that he is his father and DISREGARD what happened BEFORE AND AFTER that scene. Hmmmm is Vader really Luke’s father??? Lol cmon now!

Or just analyze the opening scene of ROTS and DISREGARD scenes BEFORE AND AFTER. And then have a thread ….How can Grevious and his 2 battle droids easily kidnap and manhandles the Dark Lord??? Hmmm Does those battle droids and Grevious have special programs that can defeat the Dark Lord himself?? Or is Palpatine really just a harmless politician and Sidious is a different person who leads the Separatists??

Context people.

Palpatine wasn’t planting seeds to frame the Jedi throughout the movie just for the hell of it. He will NOT mention the Jedi Plot without having actual plans to make that happen.

“Ok I’m going to frame the Jedi. But how?? And that dam Anakin still didn’t believe my lies and even ratted me out to the Jedi?? What should I do now??? How can I make him finally see that the Jedi are not righteous and to finally join me??!! Oh well.. I’ll just think of a plan after I kill the Jedi ….oh no I lost!!! Oh WAIT!! That’s it!!!” LOL

 

Mace is called powerful by Anakin in AOTC:



“He is as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu.”

I’d say that is a claim Windu is top tier Jedi to be in same sentence as Yoda.

And if Anakin is calling Windu powerful he is, because Anakin is very powerful.

 

Again that literally said OBI-Wan is AS POWERFUL AS Mace.

AOTC and TPM already solidifies that Yoda is the most powerful Jedi through dialogues by Palatine, Obi-Wan in TPM and Dooku.

So when Anakin mentioned Obi-WAN’s power level…though he is As WISE as Yoda, the most powerful Jedi….he wouldn’t dare say he is as powerful as him BUT OBI-Wan however is as powerful as Mace.

Yoda is top. While Obi-Wan by Episode 2 is ALREADY IN MACE’s Level.

And by Episode 3, Obi-Wan has become more powerful after his Grevious duel….and how does he compare to Sidious???

“To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough YOU ARE NOT.” ~Yoda to Obi-Wan ROTS

Sidious = Yoda > Obi-Wan = Mace

 

Anakin saying Obi-Wan is as wise as the greatest Jedi master is such a big compliment that in my opinion the implication is that he’s also calling him as powerful as one of the best swordsmen, Mace Windu.

I don’t think it’s a backhanded compliment like “he’s as wise as Yoda but only as powerful as Mace”

It’s definitely not proof that Obi-Wan was as good as Mace in episode II. Anakin’s exaggerating Obi-Wan’s skill because he looks up to him as an example

 

I never said it was a back handed compliment.

Anakin was impressed by Obi-Wan. But wouldn’t dare say he is as powerful as Yoda, the most powerful Jedi, even though he is as wise as him. But he is powerful. He is as powerful as Mace.

It’s like saying your 9 year old kid is growing up so fast that he’s as tall as me and as strong as his mother.

That doesn’t equate…wow that means I’m known for my height and my wife is known for her strength. It doesn’t mean my wife is stronger than me. It means my 9 year old kid is getting big he’s already as strong as his mom but even though he’s as tall as me…it doesn’t mean he’s as strong as me.

Same thing with Anakin comparing Obi-WAN’s wisdom and power.

 

Power level? This isn't Dragonball Z, unless Goku zipped by with a wave at some point and I missed it.

I just interpreted Anakin saying, 'My master is very strong and wise', not that he can take on Mace and Yoda in a fight in both the martial and mental senses. Both of whom could wipe out his sassy ass in seconds.

Sorry, I'm...confused here.

 

I’ve always interpreted Anakin’s line as him underestimating how powerful Yoda is due to his size, while we also see him overestimating his own power.