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PT Who was more powerful yoda or darth sidious????

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by deadly jp, Jul 28, 2014.

?

who was the true winner of the duek yoda or darth sidious?

  1. Yoda

    37.8%
  2. Darth Sidious

    66.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    You could even go further and divide into Force vs lightsabers.

    Force-wise, I'd say Yoda and Sidious are about equal. I'd give Yoda the edge in lightsabers though, as Yoda had Sidious on the ropes and straining visibly. Further, Sidious abandoned the lightsaber duel off-screen in favor of Force powers.

    Mace is on a tier below them, but closer than anyone else in Force ability (he'd have to be in order to keep up with the speed and unpredictability of Sidous's lightsaber strikes - I could see arguments being made for people like Anakin, Maul, Dooku, etc. however).

    As for lightsabers, I'd put Yoda slightly (very slightly) above Mace, as Obi-Wan throws out Yoda's name in AOTC as the premier swordsman to Anakin, not Mace. Sidious (while extremely skilled, just look what he did to Maul and Kit Fisto) is firmly at #3, as Mace and Yoda both demonstrated superior swordsmanship to him.

    Overall, I'd say it's:
    1) Yoda
    2) Mace
    3) Sidious
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  2. WayoftheJedi

    WayoftheJedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Ok but I will go with what I saw in the movie and it showed me Mace Windu surpassing Yoda.
     
  3. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Did it?
     
  4. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    I think Yoda's only option is Ataru when it comes to lightsaber combat, because he lacks physical abilities to use other styles, Mace also mentioned iirc. (he is too small and he needs to move and jump all the time)

    Though I agree Yoda knows other styles very well.
     
  5. WayoftheJedi

    WayoftheJedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Only my interpretation but i believe Mace as the Jedi Councils Master of the Order was the most powerful Jedi in ROTS yes.
     
  6. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Darth Sidious was slightly more powerful than Yoda in the Force. Dark Rendezvous explains that a dark side version of Yoda would have annihilated Sidious. If you watch their duel closely, Yoda is the superior martial artist. He successfully disarms Sidious, which only Mace and Luke were able to do. People fail to understand that Sidious is not a good duelist. He wins because of his power in the Force and his speed. Having said that, Sidious clearly won in terms of Force abilities. This is even more clear in the novelization. The movie presents it almost as a draw. I tend to side with the novelization of ROTS on most issues. Yoda was the second most powerful Jedi Grand Master after Luke in Legends, whereas Sidious was on his way to becoming an eldritch abomination in human form. Sidious is actually more powerful in ROTJ, which makes Vader's redemption more impressive, and he is just of control in Dark Empire. Nevertheless, I would say that Sidious and Yoda were about equal as far as midichlorians are concerned, but Sidious edges Yoda out in terms of potential. Yoda can destroy entire armies, but Sidious had the potential to destroy entire civilizations.
     
  7. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2015
  8. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Sidious for sure.

    And he was 1000x smarter than Yoda (who proved to be pretty clueless and bumbling in the PT).
     
    Erkan12 likes this.
  9. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    We can blame Lucas for how he wrote Yoda in the PT. Lucas had a lot of good general ideas for the prequels, but some of his specific ones did not land. Yoda's lack of foresight was one of these.

    Having said that, the notion that the Jedi were undone by Sidious is a good idea. You just have to read the ROTS novelization and Labyrinth of Evil to see that he worked for it. ROTS the novelization is a better story than ROTS the film on many levels.
     
  10. Master Endz-One

    Master Endz-One Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Sidious, but he took 1,000 years of Sith Knowledge to be the Strongest Force User of that time.
     
  11. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I don't know what a duek is. Some type of fruit?
     
  12. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    The film is a fair depiction for both characters, who are essentially equals in each discipline of the Force. Yoda defends nicely (sending back the senate seats, absorbing the lightning) and Palpatine attacks nicely (hurling the seats and emitting powerful lightning).

    Yoda HAD to lose that fight, but he did have Sidious straining near the end. Sidious was still slightly stronger, but it’s easy to imagine Yoda could’ve won if it went longer/he didn’t fall via the shockwave. Yoda has to live with that what if for the rest of his life on Dagobah. Sidious rules the galaxy.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  13. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Not as good as Yoda, yeah maybe.
    Not a good duelist? Hell no.

    Sidious trained Maul, and Maul was more skilled than many Jedi Knights and even more skilled than Count Dooku according to the SW Absolutely Everything You to Know Top 5 Red Lightsaber users list.
    Sidious easily slaughtered 3 Jedi masters, and even Kit Fisto, and Fisto was one of the best duelists of the Jedi Order.

    Sidious could lose the lightsaber duel to Yoda, I agree, though it was still close. And the reason why he bested Yoda was Sidious's superior Force powers.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  14. Sephiroth1335

    Sephiroth1335 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2019
    They basically tied in the movie I guess is how I would interpret it... like it was meant to be a draw and I wouldn't change my answer about that now.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  15. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2004
    The ROTS Junior Novelization already stated that Darth Sidious is the most powerful even than any Jedi. He is the embodiment of the dark side itself and all the knowledge of previous Sith Lords.

    Yoda is close to him as an equal but Sidious still has the edge over him. And sorry Mace fans, but he is really no match for Sidious.

    Besides the obvious foreshadowing before the “staged” Palpatine/Mace duel...
    ...Ian Mcdiarmid himself said he was faking. But yet people keep bringing up what GL said which where he was just describing a scene. Ian on the other hand answered it straight up.

    Anyways, GL is moot because when Disney bought him out....they pretty much has established Sidious as the all powerful villain.

    From the Clone Wars where he easily destroyed Maul and his brother at the same time all the way to The Rise of Skywalker.

    Sidious coming back from the dead itself should end all this debate on who is the most powerful.

    Rise of Skywalker might prove me wrong with him not coming back at all or Mace and Yoda might come back as well and kill him or whatever but as of now, Sidious is obviously the Thanos aka big bad of this universe where no one Jedi or superhero can defeat him alone.

    Rise of Skywalker can’t come here any sooner.
     
  16. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I honestly don't know.
     
  17. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    When did Luke disarm Sidious?
     
  18. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Only after Yoda fell and Palpatine throws the Senate at him does Palpatine win.
     
  19. SHAD0W-JEDI

    SHAD0W-JEDI Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    I think the question of power might be somewhat irrelevant. Isn't it implied that only the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force, meaning only the Chosen One can/will truly defeat the Emperor?
     
  20. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2004
    Well that could mean that the Chosen One is the most powerful Force User.

    The only one that is powerful enough to defeat the Dark Lord of the Force. Where the most powerful Jedi aka Yoda at most could only tie with the Dark Lord where the Chosen One could defeat both of them.

    Anakin potentially could have been more powerful than Sidious hence why the Emperor had to turn him on his side. Once Vader became mechanical he has lost his potential.

    That is why The Emeperor feared the arrival of Luke. He has the blood of the Chosen One's potential.

    "The Emperor knew as I did. If Anakin were to have any offsprings, they would be a threat to him." ~Obi-Wan to Luke in ROTJ

    Throughout the movies, the Dark Lord never feared Yoda, Obi-Wan, Mace, or any other Force Users. It's always the Skywalker line that always gets his attention.

    He did not fear Luke because he could become a Jedi. Nope there are other Jedi potentials out there....he feared Luke because he is a Skywalker. The Chosen One.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  21. SHAD0W-JEDI

    SHAD0W-JEDI Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Personally, I think we get slightly too wrapped up in "power". I don't think fights should be decided simply by comparing power rankings, although I think we indulge in a lot of that, and the movies somewhat encourage it. It's as if we could/should just compare midichlorian count, as if the characters could save a lot of time and not even fight. "More powerful"? You win.

    On the other hand, the movies aren't entirely consistent on that point. If they were, how does ObiWan, who got clobbered by Dooku, beat Anakin, who crushed Dooku? Maul kills Qui-Gonn, then gets killed by ObiWan. Clearly luck plays a part, environment plays a part, personality plays a part.
     
  22. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2004

    Yes. You are not wrong. There are victories where the powerful gets defeated by the less powerful. Ewoks vs. The Empire for example.

    However these movies are obsessed with power since the beginning. From who is more powerful in the Force or knowledge of the Force. Knowledge equals power.

    Sith and the Jedi are the same and Sidious exposed the hypocrisy of it all.

    Vader tells Obiwan how his powers got weak and when last they met that he was the master but now he is.

    Luke asks Yoda is the Darkside more powerful.

    All the way from Dooku telling he has become more powerful than any Jedi to Vader claiming he is even more powerful than the Emperor. Same relationship with Kylo and Snoke. Power is always the goal.

    The endgame in these movies is always who will be the most powerful in the Force. Jedi included.

    Luke in the Last Jedi was actually the first one who turned away from the POWER structure. He also reinforced the hypocrisy of the Jedi which Sidious exposed decades ago.

    But to answer your duel questions:

    Darth Maul at the beginning of the duel was more powerful than Obi-Wan but at the end...Obi-Wan powered up to become more powerful than Qui-Gonn and Maul.

    Dooku was more powerful until Anakin powered up using the Dark Side.

    Obi-Wan who has also powered up after the Dooku duel where he gained more after the Greivious duel .... he has become on par with Vader for their first duel.

    At the end, Obi-Wan edged him out in power at the end. Yes he outsmarted him by using his overconfidence against him. But if Vader can’t sense that then he is not as powerful as Obiwan then.

    You see in the Force, intelligence, feeling and power go hand in hand.

    If Snoke can’t sense Kylo’s maneuvering then Kylo has become more powerful than him.
     
  23. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    That book isn’t canon.

    Maul couldn’t handle Kenobi in TPM, but Dooku did twice, once in AOTC, once in ROTS. And Maul fought Kenobi and Jinn with a double bladed lightsaber, while Dooku only used single. Dooku also fought Yoda to a draw after fighting Anakin and Kenobi. Yes, he didn’t fight Kenobi and Anakin simultaneously in AOTC, but he did so in ROTS. He also can use the Force while dueling in a way Maul didn’t.

    That’s in the PT films, which are canon.
    In TCW Maul does better than before against Kenobi than in the movies, but isn’t he teamed up with Asajj first and Savage later? How did Dooku do against them?

    That’s canon too. And in the TCW Dooku, IIRC, Dooku didn’t have a slump against Anakin and Kenobi.

    I didn’t read Sons of Dathomir, also canon. Apparently it sounds like Dooku and Maul never duel.




    i
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  24. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Anything after april 2014 is canon.

    Look wookiepedia recognized as canon; https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/St...ything_You_Need_to_Know,_Updated_and_Expanded

    Maul handled Qui-Gon + Obi-Wan just fine, he killed Qui-Gon, disarmed rage amped Kenobi (due to seeing Qui-Gon's death) and he only lost because he thought he already won and he thought Kenobi had no weapon, he didn't expect to see Qui-Gon's lightsaber, Kenobi caught him off-guard.

    Using double bladed lightsaber is harder than using a regular lightsaber. How is this even an advantage? It's not.

    Dooku was no match for Yoda, which is why he had to use Kenobi and Anakin as a hostage and only then he could run away from Yoda.

    In TCW, Kenobi teamed up with Ventress, not Maul, yet Maul won. And then Kenobi teamed up with Adi Gallia (a jedi council member) and they killed her, Kenobi failed to save her.

    Dooku also lost to Savage in TCW, and we know Maul > Savage.
     
  25. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    I like Wookiepedia, but like Wikipedia it’s nit perfect.

    However, there is the section on this book not being canon.

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Absolutely_Everything_You_Need_to_Know

    The book was written before the canon reboot, and drew mostly upon the EU. It wasn’t canon.

    We agree. Maul lost to Kenobi in TCW. No excuses.

    The duel between Dooku and Yoda. He distracted Yoda to escape.

    Thanks for the clarification on who teamed up im the Maul/Kenobi/Ventress battle.

    Dooku had the last word against Savage and Asajj.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019