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Lit Why all the LOTF hate?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Jun 2, 2013.

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  1. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Okay Jacen was becoming a Sith but Mara dying by poison? Poison? Really that's the best they can do? Chewie was killed by a bloody moon. Mara's death was a Fail.
     
  2. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 16, 2008
    like I said, at leastshe fought really well against a more powerful opponent. She might not have faired so well if it was not for her learning to hide in the force from Ben. Sadly she is dead, and i doubt she would have existed in the new st anyway
     
  3. Darth Droid

    Darth Droid Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 4, 2013
    Legacy of the Force was my first experience with the EU and I enjoyed most of it but thought it really sputtered and died in the last three books or so. After going back and reading NJO, Thrawn, ect. I have to agree that killing Mara was a major cop-out. It should have been Tenal Ka
     
  4. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013

    From a cynical point of view, the only justification for preserving Tenel Ka instead of Mara is that so long as the fomer lives, the Jedi have their own private navy to use when the government turns on them for the tenth time. It's not like they've done anything with Tenel Ka's actual character that makes her more essential than Mara was.
     
  5. Darth Droid

    Darth Droid Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 4, 2013

    Maybe if Tenal Ka had done anything even remotely interesting in FOTJ I'd be more willing to forgive her for the fact that the Hapan's "greatest fleet ever" thing was old when Lucas was young. The idea that one system seems to always have just the right amount of ships needed to help whatever army win whatever war is preposterous. Those pandereres need to a pick a side (I actually wouldn't even mind seeing the whole Hapan army destroyed).
     
  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    63 systems.

    63 systems which have been untouched by warfare for three millennia, and have maintained technological parity by spying, stealing and simply killing anything that crossed their border. They're irritating in some respects, yes, but the logic of their import is there. The Hapans had dozens of capital ships the moment they were introduced. They can be as important to the story as necessary, which hardly hurts. Legacy made them neutral because there is the option to do that, regardless.
     
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  7. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    They did have several civil wars for that matter, though those properly actually helped keeping the Royal Forces sharp.
     
  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I understood they had a perennial pirate problem. Source for civil wars?
     
  9. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Since many of the pirates were hapans maybe you could call a war between a large enough piratefleet and the Royal Forces a civil war?
     
  10. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Pirates do not make a civil war.
     
  11. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004

    The Atlas mentioned it as afaik did Galaxy of Intrigue
     
  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I'll have a gander, see what it says :)
     
  13. Trisdin Gheer

    Trisdin Gheer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 18, 2013
    I think it was LOTF that started the casual mutilation of characters. Not character mutilation, actual mutilation. Something about that doesn't sit right with me. I don't want to see Corran Horn going about with three fingers. Killing him would have a narrative purpose. Mutilation is just...unnecessary.
     
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  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004

    That was Apocalypse, I recall.

    I cannot see Corran not being injured while being trapped in the Temple with five thousand Sith.
     
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  15. Trisdin Gheer

    Trisdin Gheer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 18, 2013
    Still. He got his fingers cut off. Icky. A lightsaber to the stomach, I'm fine with that.
     
  16. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    *chuckles*

    Anything bar innards falling out (Jaina in Invincible), and eyes (Caedus in Inferno), I can handle.
     
  17. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Nah, lightsabers cauterise!
     
  18. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I really should have made that point.

    *chuckles*
     
  19. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013
    Hmm...this is actually a pretty important point. Even the most crass of shock deaths can at least be considered plot points. With Denning's mutilations, it just seems like a way to add "flavor" to what could otherwise be summarized as "hero gets busted up, has a single scene where they're bedridden but is assumed to be completely fine afterwards". If there were actually some tangible consequences to a protagonist getting crippled in battle and spending a week in a bacta tank, then I'd be more forgiving, but it never seems to matter in the long run. Given that, it seems a little pointless to do.
     
  20. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Blame Bantam - it routinely crippled Luke for plot-purposes.
     
  21. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013

    So we just can't win. Sounds par for the course. [face_sigh]
     
  22. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Jedi healing trance!

    They're the best there is is at what they do, but what they do isn't very nice!
     
  23. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    What? I don't remember Jaina's innards falling out in Invincible! And what about Caedus' eyes? He still had both of them in the rest of the series...

    But yeah. Denning seems to have a thing for "beat-the-guy-senseless-and-take-some-body-parts-for-good-measure" writing.

    Jaden lost his fingers in Crosscurrent, though he lost 3 instead of 2. So when I read that Corran lost his fingers I thought Jaden ripoff! I guess they're just trying to get away from hands. :p
     
  24. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013

    Bah! Hand amputation is a proud Star Wars tradition! Del Rey can refuse to develop any of their characters without killing them later, they can turn the Jedi into a paramilitary militia that selects the head of government like freaking Janissaries, they can even bring the Sith back as often as they want but unless I see someone's hand lopped off every book I'm going to have no choice but to leave the fandom! [face_not_talking]
     
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  25. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Alema Rar was mutilated in DN. lost part of her arm and leku, I think.
     
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