Why Darth Vader became the strongest....

When Vader is put in the suit, it makes him much slower and clumsier than he was as Anakin. The suit weighs him down. But Yoda is slowed down by old age, and he can use the force to move around very fast. Shouldn't Vader be able to use the force to jump around even with the suit on? And we know from General Grevious that having metal parts doesn't necessarily make you slower. If using the force is a mind thing, it shouldn't matter what your body is like. If a 900 year old Yoda can jump around by using the force, than a Vader with or without metal parts should be able to also.

 

exactly! he could still use the force and he was "MAD" powerful!

 

then if anakin could not control himself, he is not the strongest. dumb luck or not, obiwan kicked his butt.

 

I think something is being forgotten here. Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are the same person. Just because Anakin went to the Dark Side, became a Sith and was renamed Vader does not mean he is two different people.

All beings have a "good" and a "bad" side, Light or Dark if you like that wording better.

As I said in my previous post, Anakin/Vader was made by the Force itself. The Force is neither good nor evil, it simply IS. It is a force of universal nature, hence the Force itself is neutral.

Now think about that. Just think.

In order for something in nature to work at its fullest and do what it is created to do, it acts in a neutral way. Everything is kept in a balance. Example: wild animals eat one another to keep a species from being overpopulated. There must be a balance in Earth's nature.

The Star Wars Universe is no different. And Anakin/Vader did what had to be done in order for true balance.

 

I was just thinking about this. Even though Obi-Wan loves Anakin and certainly doesn't want to fight/kill him, Kenobi has that ability to put all those feelings aside and focus on what needs to be done.

Anakin couldn't do that, his emotions have dictated his actions throughout his entire life. That makes him weak ... or makes him stronger.

 

I think something is being forgotten here. Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are the same person. Just because Anakin went to the Dark Side, became a Sith and was renamed Vader does not mean he is two different people.

I think we are talking about Vader before the suit (Anakin) and Vader after the suit. Vader in the suit was weaker than human Vader was.

 

First of all Anakin was created by the Darth Plagueis, from his powers to create life. Another thing to Ladynaye, George Lucas himself said that the prophecy "balance" means to destroy the sith, not to even up the sides, like you think balancing the force might mean. Now about the most powerful sith. Darth Sidious was indeed the most powerful, ever. George Lucas said that Darth Vader in the suit was 80% as powerful as Sidious, in measures of the force. But if he never had suffered the wounds against Obi-Wan in episode 3, then he would have gone on to be about twice that powerful in the force being 160% of Sidious's power. When Vader fought Obi-Wan in episode 3, and lost, he was indeed weaker than he was in ROTJ though, because he was not fully developed, but was still stronger than Obi-Wan (lost because he angry, and confused). Anakin did have by far the highest potential in force power, but this was halfed because of his injuries. Also there is only one reason Vader could not use the Force lightning, and that was because of his lack of real hands, this was said by George Lucas. I hope this clears up some things.

 

I was wondering if anyone remembers the game for playstation 1 called star wars-masters of teras ki. Darth Vader was the best in that game. Also he could use lightning to annihalate his victims by calling it through the force from the sky. This game was endorsed by Lucas arts.
I think that GL got lost in his own story and failed to make it clear who the most powerful person was. From my point of view and a majority of the general public, I would say that Darth Vader(yes in the suit) is easily the most physical and force oriented strong. I did not say the best swordsman, although he could hold his own if necessary. He never challenged Palps because he was afraid of him, and that fear kept him in place. Palpatine also feared him otherwise he would of gotten rid of him a long time ago, why suffer with some puny cyborg if you could train someone better so easily??
In ESB Vader was on top of the dark side, come ROTJ his love and compassion had made him weak. Look at how good of a fighter grievous was and he had no force power, now multiply that times whatever to have the best and you have Vader. GL changed the story over time, we know there was a tragedy of Anakin's fall, but it never appeared to make him weak in the past. It was only brought up when ep. 3 was coming around, and still watching the movies, you don't get the impression that Vader is by any means weak. His awesome display of force power at the end was still impressive and his training for the dark side wasn't even really started.
Don't let %'s fool you, it's very obvious that Vader was the man. Peace out and
Merry Christmas to all!

 

Happy New Year to all!

I was watching ROTJ the other day and saw something obvious. In the scene where Vader hands over Lukes saber to Palps, he could've easily driven it through the Emperor and been done with him, like nothing. Also, when Luke grabs his saber and swings at Palps, Vader didn't have to block! He could've let his son strike him down, but he didn't. His loyalties lied with the emperor until the end. If, Vader wanted to kill him, but was too weak, he had two golden opportunities there to punk the emperor. He wasn't too weak, he was confused about his loyalties and his choices in life. His meticulous search for more power came to an end when he decided to save his son, by the greatest power-LOVE!

I hope in the future we can see Vader's "MAD" strength shown in greater detail through the tv series, books, or something, because I find myself wanting more of Vader, and I want it ASAP!

 

I do not feel that Vader is portrayed as the strongest... In fact the PT make Vader end up seeming so average compared to some of the sith before him? Even Dooku in AOTC had powers that rivaled yoda's, with the lightning from the hands, to shifting huge parts of the earth/buildings - when compared to Vader's force-choking, it makes Vader seem almost pathetic?
Why is it that the chosen one, the most gifted jedi - Anakin, the one who could potentially become one of the most powerful sith once he turned to the dark side, end up seeming so average in the OT?

 

The suit.





Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

I don't think that Vader ever became the strongest. He surely had the potential, but like any athlete with huge talent that doesn't follow up, he failed in becoming the best. Dooku I agree seemed at least as powerful and resourceful as Vader. I do think, however, that judging by the movies Vader comes off as more powerful than Maul. Perhaps Vader had become the strongest one hadn't OBW messed him up so badly, but it's no certainty at all. To become the best you have to have some agenda or goal - Palpatine had that, Yoda did and OBW did, but Anakin/Vader didn't after Padme was killed. He didn't really have anything to fight for. Hate was the catalyst for his strenghts, but it can only get you so far...

 

Hate is what fuels the dark side!It was Vader's hate and anger that made him the most powerful.
If OBW and Yoda were half as great as everyone thinks, they could have snook into and eliminated Palps and Vader. We know this never happens, because after ep.3 Yoda flees and OBW waits for another time with Luke hoping that he maybe could stand up to Vader.

Yoda said "size matters not, look at me, judge me by my size do you? And where you should not, for my ally is the force, and a powerful ally it is.."
Vader's suit had nothing to do with him being able to tap into the force, even "cut dow" so to say, he was still bigger than Yoda!

Darth Vader was the perfect entity as a Sith. He had mechanical/super strong artificial limbs, and he was able to call upon the force!
He was like BLADE "all of their strengths, none of their weaknesses." So what if he needed the breather, so what if he had mechanical limbs, he still could do AMAZING things through the force! Vader's suit was part of the coolest thing in STARWARS! He was intimidating, freightening, and AWESOME to look at. He was the embodiment of hatred, anger, and fear, all key components to the dark side, there was noone that could touch his attributes. What would Palpatine have to fuel him???? Nothing compared to Vader. Vader is the only one we see resist being struck by force lightning to kill the head of the so called evil Empire. It is only when he becomes Anakin and lets go of his hate that he is vulnerable.

VADER is STAR WARS!

 

I'm not disputing the fact that Vader was frightening and most people still see him as precisely that. However, he was not that strong - or powerful... as I said, to be the best you need something other than the desire to be bad or evil to get you there... Sideous had his goal, and he therefore remained the lord of the sith, Vader's undisputed master. If Vader was more powerful he would have followed the Sith "code" and killed Sideous and take his place... the fact that he never did, in a 20 year lifespan, must tell you that he was unable to!

 

Just because Vader did not take Sideous down does not mean that he couldn't. Even Darth Maul almost killed his master in a fit of rage when Sideous left him on an outer rim planet hunted by assasin droids. If Maul could *almost* take down Sideous....
and Vader is way more powerful than Maul....
There's your answer.
"Couldn't" is not the same as WOULDN'T.
Vader had his own reasons for waiting 20 years to take down the Emperor.


Darth Vader IS the most powerful!
Sideous' little fall down the shaft proved that. (And THAT was when Vader was at his *Weakest*!)

 

where Vader hands over Lukes saber to Palps, there is no way he could have easily driven it through the Emperor, because Vaders "thoughts would have betrayed him" and the emperor would have sensed this. At this moment in the film his loyalties did lie with the emperor, only at the end did he decide to betray the emperor and save his son, by the greatest power-LOVE!

 

First of all: where in the movies do we ever hear of that Maul incident? Since we don't it's not really that relevant. We do not see any evidence showing Vader off as the most powerful. Some here say that suited Vader IS as powerful as Maul and Dooku - they were all like 80% of the Emperor. If that is true, then Vader can't be more powerful... what are his reasons not to overthrow the Emperor? Why is he asking Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor?

 

Darth Vader is not the strongest. By Return of the Jedi Luke may have got stronger then Darth Vader.
Obi-wan could be stronger then Vader in force powers by a new hope because Obi-wan is not machine at all. They were equel in lightsaber skills. Obi-wan Sacrificed himself so Luke, Lea,Han,Chewie,C3-po and r2-d2 can escape, There were so many storm troopers. In the Obi-wan vs Anakin duel they were equel. They had to be equel. Obi-wan was able to fight Anakin because he was more experiaced then Anakin. Obi-wan was not losing the fight at all,Just because you are defending does not mean you are losing. Just becasuse Anakin is more powerful does not mean he was winning and does not make him the better fighter because power does not make you a better fighter. On the DVD Hayden said that they had to be equel. Some people say that Obi-wan was able to fight Anakin becaue he knew his moves and if he did not know his moves he would have lost right away but I have to dissagree with that. Hayden and Gillard said that Anakin uses a diffrent style that is more powerful and more Aggressive so that would mean that he is using new moves. So Obi-wan was able to fight Anakin because he is more experianced. The fight had to show them being equel fighters.

 

That fact about Maul is pretty common knowledge. If you read up anything at all about Maul you would find it. Just because it is not in any movie doesn't make it any less relevant. There is plenty of character backgrounds that are not in the movies.
For instance Obi-Wan left the Jedi Order for a time when he was younger.
That is also relevant. Luke later married. Han and Leia have children. I could go on forever.
Anyways-
If you want to just stick with the movies, then yes, we do see evidence of Vader being the most powerful. We see it all the time. You don't rule the Empire for twenty years and not be. He had everybody quaking in their boots at the mere sight of him. As I said earlier Vader had his own reasons for not taking down Palpatine. You have to put yourself in Vaders place. I believe all along Vader was biding his time until the right opportunity presented himself.
At the Duel on Bespin, Vader said "Join me, and together, we can rule the galaxy as father and son".
No where does he "ask" Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor. I believe if Luke had said "Yes father, I will join you" Vader would have gotten rid of Palps immediately. He didn't need Lukes help.
As I stated earlier, if Palpatine is the "most powerful" and Vader overthrew him when he was at his "weakest"....
Theres your answer.

 

No, you're not giving any answers at all. Where explicitly do we, in the films, see that Vader is stronger than Dooku for instance? Dooku shows greater ability than Vader with the force, and he shows greater skills in strategy. Vader was not biding his time. He had come to terms with the fact that he was not who he was meant to be. Imagine losing everything you love. All you have left is the hate for your master, but you cannot overthrow him. If Vader did succeed in overthrowing Palps then he would have nothing. So, actually, here I will lend you a little support for waiting for Luke to arrive - only he didn't know about Luke before ANH.

The Sith apprentice that comes off as the most resourceful in the movies is Dooku. Obviously he is a great manipulator. He is a great swordsman. He only dies because Sideous turned on him - perhaps because Sideous realized him to be a threat.

Vader is the saddest character of the Saga, but not the strongest! That title is held by Sideous and Yoda!

 

Where is Vader stronger than Dooku????
Maybe when he kicked his butt and sliced his head off with his own lightsaber.
And THAT was before Anakin had even turned!
And no, Dooku did not die only because Sideous turned on him. He died because Anakin was BETTER than him. Sideous turned on him IN THE END, after Anakin already whooped him.
Dooku is not a great manipulator. Who did he manipulate? He TRIED to manipulate Obi into joining him and failed. Instead HE got used and manipulated by Sideous.
Dooku is not resourceful. He is a weak cheater who has to use Force Lightning And other stuff like dropping heavy objects above Obi and Ani so Yoda will have to stop fighting and save them so he can run away. He knew he was losing to Yoda. Palpatine is the same way. At first he tried to flee the scene ("If so powerful you are, why leave?") and when he realized he HAD to face Yoda in a duel, he used Force lightning among other things like throwing Senate Seats at him.
They are both pathetic.
I will hand it to Sideous though. He IS A MASTER MANIPULATOR. That is why he stayed Emperor for so long. He MANIPULATED Anakin/Vader into thinking he needed him.

Being manipulated into thinking something does not make it true.
If Vader had realized all along what a liar Sideous was , then Sideous would never have had reign for as long as he did. It took Luke for him to realize that everything Palps told him was a bunch of crap.
Then you'll notice what happened to Palps.

 

Dooku did manage to force choke OBW, a Jedi master, while fighting Anakin, the chosen one - you can't call him weak! Also, he didn't seem to be on a mission to kill Anakin, so we don't know how he would have fared if he was. Remember that Anakin lost to OBW who didn't seem to stand a chance against Dooku!

 

Force Choking is a Dark Side trait. Dooku did it to CHEAT as usual. Obi-Wan DOES stand a chance if Dooku would face him fairly. He's too busy choking, flinging objects (and people), using Force Lightning to fight one on one with his lightsaber. In AOTC duel cutting off a padawans arm doesn't make you great. Anakin rushed in instead of using patience. That is why he lost. In ROTS duel he gets Obi out of the way because he knows ANAKIN IS THE REAL THREAT TO HIM. Anakin is no longer a padawan. Dooku was testing Anakin at first, But Anakin turned the duel deadly real fast. He taunted Anakin and look where it got him. The minute he fought Anakin one on one with his LIGHTSABER, HE LOST. (his life )

Anakin lost to Obi-Wan because he was blinded by rage. Obi was able to focus while Anakin could not. His arrogance was his downfall. As much of a superior Jedi I think Obi-Wan is, I know Anakin would have beat him had he been able to keep his fury in check. The entire Duel Anakin is on the offensive while Obi is mostly defensive.

Just because you lose a duel does not make you an inferior Jedi. AS I said, Dooku cheats. That's why he wins.
Anakin lost due to pure rage.
That does not make him any less The Chosen One and THE BEST.

 

But it takes more than one skill to be the best... dooku possessed many attributes, which all made him deadly. All is fair in love and war

 

power alone does not make a jedi the better fighter. experiance is mostly better then power. This is why the coucil sent Obi-wan to fight Grevious. That is one of the reasons Anakin lost. The most powerful does not always win. The one with more experiance mostly wins.