Rogue One Why did Lyra allow herself to be killed?

This is something that has bothered me about RO since I first saw it. I just don't see any logic in Lyra's motivation and decision to reveal herself to Krennic the way she did and basically allow herself to be killed. Especially since all it really amounted to was her making a point that they didn't want to be involved with the Empire anymore. And to lose her life over it and for her daughter to be left completely alone as a result did not seem worth it at all. She had to have known that was a possibility.

Unless she genuinely thought she had a chance to kill Krennic. But even in the unlikely event that she is able to fire off a good enough shot to kill him, the Death Troopers would have still massacred her afterwards, Galen would have still been taken by the Empire, and her daughter would still have been left abandoned and completely alone to fend for herself. And who knows what possible even worse fate would await Jyn if her mother actually succeeded in killing an Imperial officer.

I mean if it had only been Galen and Lyra, and Lyra had decided she would rather be dead than be a subject of the Empire, that would be one thing. But I just cannot wrap my head around why at that moment Lyra chose to confront Krennic over protecting her daughter at a time when you would think a young girl of that age would need her mother the most given the circumstances. The opportunity was plenty there for the both of them to hide out.

And even if Lyra's faith in Saw was so great that she was willing to lose her own life by attempting to kill Krennic and trust that Saw would find Jyn, look after her, and raise her from that point, I still fail to see how that's a good enough justification for doing what she did.

Is there some back story that explains why Lyra felt such a strong need to abandon her daughter and confront Krennic at that very moment? Did she actually think she had a chance to kill him? And if so, did she honestly think that killing him would somehow improve their circumstances beyond it just being some personal retaliation against him? Or if it was just a personal vendetta against Krennic, does anybody agree that that wasn't at all worth the loss of her life and leaving Jyn without her mother? Wouldn't trying to protect her daughter supersede any personal issues she would have had with Krennic and the Empire?

 

Lyra could most likely have killed Krennic if she'd shot first but I don't think that was her intension. Rather her intension was to pull the blaster on Krennic to get him to back down and allow them to escape.

 

Even if that was her intension then I think that would be completely naïve of her to think she could have gotten Krennic to back off to the point where they could escape unharmed.

She knew the Empire and what they were capable of. So she had to have known that doing something like that would be futile and understand the risk that attempting something that would have on her and her daughter.

 

Krennic himself though was self obsessed and likely not ready to die for any cause so threatening him did have potential.

 

True.

But still, I just don't think confronting Krennic at that very moment was the right move for her to make. And I can't find any real justification for why it would make it the right move given the potential for the immense consequences that both herself and her daughter could face, consequences that she had to be aware of before making that move.

 

MotivateR5D4

Good points. Galen claimed that Lyra had died, apparently a vain attempt to stop Krennic looking for her (and Jyn) as leverage.

Wasn't that something Galen and Lyra had talked, planned and agreed upon before (i.e. to fabricate her death)?

It's obvious that Galen didn't want his wife and daughter to become leverage, but under "normal" circumstances I would have expected all the Death Troopers' weapons to be set to stun (not unheard of in the GFFA ) because under "normal" circumstances it would have been leverage Krennic wanted, not punishment.

Perhaps Lyra thought that by abandoning Jyn (which mother would really do that?) and offering herself Krennic might have bought the story that Jyn was dead, yet the evidence (stormtrooper doll) suggested differently, so I would have expected the Death Troopers to conduct a more thorough search or leave that to a special squad arriving after them.

 

It does certainly give you the impression that the original plan Galen and Lyra had was for the latter to hide out with Jyn. As far as why that changes you could I'd say argue either that Lyra desides she can't go though with it(either for Galens sake or the potential of him working on the DS) or perhaps that she's gone back to listen in on how things are going and see's that Krennic isn't taken in at all(him telling the troopers to search the homestead is loud enough for her to hear) and then desides to confront him instead.

As far as not stunning her goes perhaps that's a less dependable method of taking someone down quickly? in ANH troopers get told by Vader(under presumed pain of death) to capture Leia alive and one gets killed trying to, in Rogue One I can definitely see Krennic's orders to the troopers being "protect me above everything else".

I'd just like to mention I'v visited that area of Iceland the year before the Eyjafjallajökull eruption(so a lot less ash), could actually pick out the black sand beaches at Vic.

 

moreorless12

Tell us more about that, not less (have you been a location scout for Lucasfilm?)

Perhaps there is yet another angle to it, assuming that Galen told Lyra he'd install a flaw on the Death Star should Krennic ever find them? Had Krennic taken Lyra as hostage and leverage and ever even had the suspicion that Galen was up to something, he would have probably tortured her slowly to death and Galen would have confessed to prevent that.

By allowing herself to be killed instead (I think Leia was taken out rather instantly by the stun shot in ANH), such concerns and reflections died with her, ultimately Galen only had to be concerned about his own well-being and could continue this sabotage, he was no longer tied by any moral responsibility for the well-being of his wife.

 

Nothing that interesting, just went on a tour the year before, walked up the nearby Myrdalsjokull glacier and around the semi frozen Skogafoss(the Scotish Widows advert one if your a Brit) waterfall. I'm guessing Edwards chose that area specifically because theres so much fresh ash from the eruption making for as much blackness to the landscape as possible.

 

I don’t think she deliberately allowed herself to get killed. More that she tried to protect both her child and her husband and that did not work out very well. She clearly didn’t have a well thought-out plan because she was desperate and not thinking straight, and humans can be pretty stupid creatures when acting out of desperation.

Yes, it would be naïve of her. But Krennic was a former family friend, so she probably thought that he at the end of the day he wouldn’t have the balls to kill her. So maybe he would just back off under the threat of a gun pointing at him and he would go back to his ship. I mean, that would work on Phasma.

 

^ That. Lyra loved her little family and would risk anything to keep them all together. Her actions were more of an emotionally charged reaction than a rationally thought out plan, IMO.

 

Yes, I agree with this too. She may have been trying to buy time for Jyn to hide, but Jyn could have run and hid during that time anyway. Galen and Lyra had a plan in place, but since that plan involved the strong likelihood that Galen would be taken by the Imperials, she panicked at the thought of actually losing him. She knew the plan was set up in order to protect her and Jyn, but she obviously couldn't go through with it when it was all becoming real. Maybe she thought she could kill Krennic, but beyond that she didn't really have any plan. Galen's face when she walked up (after his lie about her being dead, too) basically said "no no no, what are you doing?!".

 

It's a miracle.

Phasma didn't have elite stormtroopers by her side

 

That's a good point, and if it had just been Galen and Lyra that would have been all well and good for Lyra to do that. But the fact is that it came at the expense of not only the loss of Lyra's life, but also the abandonment of Jyn and leaving her completely alone to fend for herself, after they both had a chance to hide out together and be relatively safe and wait for Saw to retrieve them.

Good point as well. And that's sort of what I was implying and trying to get at. It seemed emotionally charged and not all that well thought out. Galen lying to Krennic about her and his reaction to seeing her definitely indicates that her actions were not part of the plan.

But even with it being all too real for Lyra, I just don't understand why she placed more priority in trying to stop Galen from being taken by the Empire than she did in wanting to protect her daughter at a time when they were all in such grave danger.


Like I had mentioned before, I have to think there is some backstory as to why Lyra felt so strongly that she needed to confront Krennic at that moment. Something other than it being a panicked and emotionally charged response.

And also what the Erso's relationship with Saw was in that Lyra had so much in faith in Saw eventually coming to retrieve Jyn and raise her that she would risk her own life doing what she did. The fact that Lyra knew Saw would come to get Jyn which was also a plan that was set in motion indicates that to some degree Lyra had an idea that she might not come out alive from this. Because without that plan in place Lyra's actions become even more unwarranted. Any thoughts on this point?

 

I'm torn... One part of me thinks it was a really dumb idea (Just take Jyn, go hide and the Galen situation could be dealt with another day... Krennic needed him so he wasn't going to be killed)

The other part of me thinks (as some of you have already pointed out) that she was desperate and didn't really think it through... I think if you put everyone of us in the same situation the majority would go look after Jyn, but there would still be the 5% that would confront Krennic. Lyra was in the 5%.

 

#Lyrashotfirst

 

Their was the makings of a good plan. Galen told Krennic she was dead so as long as he bought that she could pop out and shoot him dead. As it turned out he was not as guile able as Galen expect. He did bring a security detail with him so he is used to would be assassins trying to take a shot at him. She should have aimed a little bit higher up and his neck would have been shot.

 

Even in the event that she fires off a good enough shot to kill Krennic, what possible difference would or could that have made? It would not have improved their circumstances at all. It's not like the Death Troopers would have just packed up shop and left them alone. Lyra would have still been shot dead, Galen would have still been taken by the Empire, and Jyn would still have been left alone. Krennic being dead wouldn't make a bit of difference except for having exacted a personal revenge against him. But again, I don't see how that motive would be more of a priority to Lyra than protecting and staying with Jyn.

 

She was expecting Krennic to back down and withdraw without Galen. Any reasonable person would have done this: with a clear shot, and at point-blank range, there's no way his Death Troopers could have saved him. But Krennic's arrogance would not allow him to be reasonable. It's just bad luck that she merely winged him.

I imagine the Ersos had been constantly on the run from the Empire, and Lyra had reached the end of her tether and decided to make a stand.

 

I think Lyra was at her boiling point with Krennic and didn't think things through. She was probably in such shock at him finding them after successfully hiding for years that she decided to risk everything and try to divert Krennic's attention away from Galen. Don't forget, she did manage to land a shot on Krennic.

 

I think she was prepared to kill him. Perhaps she didn't know those Death troopers would be there? Plus, I always got the impression that when Saw said (on the screen), "you know what to do" he may not have just been talking about hiding in the cave. It's possible part of the plan was that she would try to kill Krennic.

 

The cynical part of me says because it wouldn't be a Star Wars movie if the mother didn't die but....yeah no that's actually the only reason I can think of.

 

All good points. I hadn't thought about it that way. It would make complete sense for her to be at her breaking point. Perhaps in that frame of mind she didn't think she was abandoning Jyn. Perhaps she thought she could get after Krennic, and then still come to protect her daughter. That is, assuming she didn't know the Death Troopers would be there, but by then it was too late.

And yea, that Saw thing is a bit confusing. And is further reason to think there has to be some backstory to how all this played out. Because again, without the plan in place for Saw to come and retrieve Jyn, Lyra's actions are completely unwarranted. So maybe he was referring to Lyra making an attempt on Krennic's life. And it was Lyra who understood the risks and trusted that should anything happen to her that Saw would come and look after Jyn. But that kind of faith in someone doesn't happen over night, so if any of this speculation turns out to be true then I would be very interested to learn just how the Erso's and Saw became such trusted allies with one another.

 

Lets say she he had shot Krennic dead she would have been remembered as the "rebel" who killed the Director of the Death Star. Honoured by Rebel Alliance and placed on the hall of honour at Yavin IV. Galen been the bait to bring Krennic to the planet and Lyra under the guise of protecting her settlement from Imperial control. Notice how the world was remote and nobody came to welcome him. He came unannounced to intimidate Galen & Lyra to follow them he was not expecting the family to become foolish.

A trap was set up with the family having nowhere else to go. Once Krennic came within range they would spring it. Their deaths would at least take out a leading Imperial official putting back the Death Star's plan possible indefinitely. Jyn was okay in the bunker so no need to worry about her the focus was on assassinating Krennic. The only issue would have been the retaliation from the Imperials. All in all it would have been a major blow against Imperials had it gone that way.