Rogue One Why did Lyra allow herself to be killed?

You miss my point, as well. I was specifically refuting the claim that the main villain being Lyra's killer gives context to bring her up. But Krennic is not very present in Jyn's story. They never mention him, and she only has one conversation with him - in which she does specifically mention Lyra. There is much more context to mention Galen, but when it is appropriate (speaking to Krennic), she does bring up Lyra.

You could just as easily make the claim that Lyra "abandons Jyn" to fight to give Jyn an opportunity at the kind of life she would like her to have - even at the likely expense of her own life. You could as easily read it as Lyra being willing to give everything for Jyn, as you could read it that her priorities are other than time spent with her daughter.

I never said they were. But you could certainly make the case that Jyn's attachment to the necklace her mom gave her is an indication that she holds her very dear.

 

Well said. I don’t think Motivate letters and numbers is implying that here, but in the past I’ve found some of the fan vitriol directed at Lyra to be the kind typical criticism mothers get for not conforming to traditional caregiver stereotypes. It’s a somewhat suffocating view where I live, so I’m sensitive to it.

 

It’s R5D4… like the droid with the bad motivator? Come on.

 

Even Galen wasn't expecting Lyra to do what she did. His plan was to tell Krennic that Lyra had died so that Lyra and Jyn can safely get away. He was genuinely surprised to see Lyra, and even asked her to put the gun away knowing what was about to happen to her if she didn't. So there's definitely a mismatch between what Galen and Lyra think are the best approach to protecting Jyn and providing her a quality life after these events.

And we can't assume that Lyra had some plan made with Saw beforehand. People just assume that based on the dialogue, but there isn't any evidence for that. And on a side note, even if there was a plan made between Lyra and Saw, then that means that Saw is party responsible for Lyra's death.

We have to assume that Lyra acted entirely on her own. On one hand you can say that makes her strong and independent. On the other hand you can say that makes her impulsive and selfish. There is certainly some history between Lyra and Krennic (from Catalyst), so for all we know she couldn't pass up the opportunity to confront him, in addition to the panic and fear that set in, despite that not being the best course of action in that moment.

You could argue that the scene with Jyn and Lyra on the mountainside indicates a closeness between them. But you could also argue that it was a superficial gesture for Lyra to tell her nine year old daughter to simply trust the force, as if the force is going to do anything for her, hand her a necklace, and then go running off towards probable death when she didn't have to, leaving Jyn to her own devices. In a real life circumstance, any parent would get rightfully criticized for doing that.

We don't get a flashback of Jyn and Lyra having some great time together. In fact she seems distant in that flashback, while Galen is the one offering Jyn comfort and reassurance. In the opening scene, Jyn comes running into the homestead and yells "momma!", to which Lyra matter of factly replies "We know", and doesn't even look Jyn's way. Meanwhile, it's Galen who hugs Jyn and offers her comfort and reassurance that he will always protect her.

And then getting back to my main point, the entire rest of the movie revolves around how close Jyn is with Galen.

Based on everything we see, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Lyra and Jyn weren't particularly close.

 

I always read that sequence in the beginning of Rogue One as Lyra loving her daughter so much that she gave her life for Jyn.

She went back and attacked Krennic not only out of hatred and spite (and to give a chance to their family to survive as a unit) but also so that she can buy more time for Jyn to go hide safely. It never even crossed my mind that Lyra doesn't show affection and love to Jyn or whatsoever honestly.

 

I didn't say there wasn't any affection shown between Lyra and Jyn. Just that there wasn't any special closeness between them, especially in comparison to Galen and Jyn.

 

I’m just not convinced that there is any evidence of a lack of closeness between them. Of course Jyn’s relationship with her father was the focus of the film. Because he was alive. And central to the Death Star plot. And despite this, Jyn proudly names her mother when confronting Krennic.

Further, the scene of Lyra leaving Jyn was full of emotion and in no way indicative of a cold relationship.

 

We just don’t (and can’t, I think) know that based on the limited information given to us in the film. Don’t quite remember if the Catalyst novel touches on the subject, but I don’t believe it indicated much distance between them.

 

That isn't particularly meaningful though. Lyra is dead for most of the movie, Galen isn't. Galen is essential to the developing plot, Lyra isn't. And he has meaning to Jyn because he's actually still alive (see her comment about her "liking to think that he is dead"). The movie shows plenty of Galen and Jyn, because the audience needs to understand that Galen loves his daughter very much and would do anything to protect her. It is needed as his motivation for his acts to try and sabotage the Empire from within.

Them not spending a lot of time to build up the relationship between Jyn and her dead mother does not indicate that they didn't have a close relationship. Lyra is just not important enough for the main plotline of the movie to spend time on her relationship with Jyn. That relationship is simply of no relevance to the actual plot, unlike the one between Jyn and her father. Movies can't spend time on something that is not really essential for the story they are telling. It's no different than ROTS cutting out all of Padme's political content to focus more on Anakin's fall and the rise of the Empire.

All we have to judge their relationship by, are the few scenes they share (which do not indicate any absence of closeness) and the one moment in which Jyn faces Krennic, in which she mentions her parents equally.

 

Fair enough.

It was just something that I found peculiar after a recent viewing, and wanted to touch on again.

 

I mean Lyra is the one who gives her the kyber crystal necklace that she keeps throughout her entire life. That’s a pretty obvious signal that her mother is just as much a part of her as her father is.

 

Right. It's the one possession Jyn has that she clearly treasures. A lot.

 

I think it comes from a judgment that Lyra should not have left Jyn to confront Krennic. I disagree with that judgment, but I think that's the root of it.

People expect her to act like a middle class mom from Des Moines, but she's a galactic revolutionary.

 

I mean, maybe if she had actually succeeded in busting a cap in old man Krennic, she could be considered that.

But instead, she failed spectacularly in her attempt. That's not to say she wasn't valiant and brave in attempting it. But calling her a galactic revolutionary is a bit of a stretch.

 

She was working closely with Saw, as the prologue implies. In any event, not succeeding in a mission does not negate who she was. Our Rebel friends don't succeed in TESB, but they're still rebels.

 

Whether you are a revolutionary or not depends on what you are doing, not on whether you achieve the revolution. Someone who is part of a failed revolution is as much a revolutionary as someone who is part of a successful one.

That being said, I'm not sure if revolutionary is really the proper designation for Lyra. She cannot stand the Empire, but her interests in that moment don't so much lie in toppling the Empire, but in her family being out of harms way instead. She goes out there to prevent her husband from being taken from her (and her child) by the Empire, not because she is attempting a revolt against the Empire. Her act of standing up against the Empire could in itself be considered an act of revolution, as she takes up arms against the government, but I don't think that's really the level she is at at that point. There is taking the fight to an oppressive regime, and protecing yourself against abuse of power by any means necessary. The difference between someone who goes out to harm the evil regime (like Saw), and someone who hides from its grasp. Lyra does the latter, using fighting only as the last resort.