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CT Why did Obi-Wan allow himself to be killed?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by sith_rhino, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. sith_rhino

    sith_rhino Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2007
    I imagine this must have been discussed here before, but I guess I missed it, so I will go ahead and ask it.

    In ANH, Ben lifts his light sabre and smiles, allowing Darth Vader to kill him. I know he said to Darth, "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine" and I'm sure he knew he'd turn into a force ghost, but is there more to it than just that? Wouldn't it be better to guide Luke as a living being than as a force ghost? Wouldn't it be better to kill Vader, if he could (though he probably couldn't have if he wanted to at that point) ?
     
  2. Starith

    Starith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2020
    I used to think it wasn't a good choice myself, and part of me still doesn't care for the "old mentor has to die" trope, but really looking at the situation, it kind of makes tactical sense. Obi-Wan not only had Vader to contend with, but also stormtroopers marching towards him, and then Luke suddenly appearing nearby, noticing he was in a duel. Obi-Wan probably figured he wouldn't win, and it was better to just end things before Luke and the others endangered themselves trying to help.

    Plus he knew he'd become a Force ghost and Yoda would be around to continue Luke's training.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  3. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    Yeah, Ben looked at all those stormtroopers and basically said to himself, "There is no way that I am going to be able to get to the Falcon alive. And there is no way that Luke is going to leave while I am alive. Luke and the rest need to get on that ship and get away. That is the priority. Therefore, the best thing for me to do is to die ASAP."
     
  4. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    His light saber was dying, as his powers were weak due to old age. He was also surrounded by stormtroopers as others have mentioned. He saw a chance to help Luke, and help the others escape. You can see the power in his light saber fading in one scene.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  5. GregMcP

    GregMcP Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2015
    But, if he had kept up the fight for a few more seconds, and kept the Troopers and Vader distracted just a little longer, then the escape would have been a bit less risky for them.

    But then again maybe as long as Obi-Wan was alive he knew Luke would stay and try and save him. He had to make Luke let go and save himself, and everyone else.
     
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  6. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    He looked at the Falcon and thought what it would smell like with Chewie and 3 humans who had just taken a bath in the garbage disposal and he was like, "oh, hell no!!" and he just preferred to become a blue glowie.
     
  7. StuntHelmet

    StuntHelmet Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2020
    The Art of TLJ book has an interesting answer to this:

    “In A New Hope, Ben Kenobi warned his former apprentice Darth Vader, as they duel aboard the Death Star, “If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” The popular interpretation of Kenobi‘s words is that he would return more powerfully in spirit form to guide Luke toward the redemption of his fallen father. But Rick Carter felt otherwise. Early in the development of The Force Awakens, he shared his belief that Kenobi, turning briefly to see that Luke was watching, consciously resolved to sacrifice himself, knowing that Luke would bear witness to his death. And that by bringing father and son together through that selfless act, Kenobi was hastening the end of Darth Vader and therefore, the end of the Empire. So Kenobi trusts in the Force, choosing not to fight.”
     
  8. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

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    May 18, 2017
    Obi Wan was clearly no match for Vader at this point because of his age. Vader delightfully points this out. "your powers are weak old man."
     
  9. Starith

    Starith Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 5, 2020
    ^I don't know if it was his age as much as Ben was probably really out of practice. Interesting idea that his lightsaber was weaker though. I always just saw that as a bad effects thing.

    And that TLJ art book quote is a weird interpretation. If by "bringing father and son together" it means "son will be motivated to kill the father more than ever now, because believing a lie that his father was murdered wasn't enough, Obi-Wan has to add another reason Luke wants Vader dead"... then sure. Real "selfless act" there, Obi-Wan.

    Yeah, I'm going to go with the "stalling and self-sacrifice so the others can escape" reason. It just makes more sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  10. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    To be fair, I think he invented the whole Old Mentor Dies thing in modern fiction.

    But yeah, he probably knew there was no way Luke was gonna just leave him hanging there facing Vader. I mean, even when he did die, Luke continued fighting and had to be cajoled to leaving by the other two.
     
  11. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    He had nothing else to do in the third act and he didn’t feel like hanging around that hot and humid jungle base on Yavin IV. There was a trap door and he knew a little bit of magic. So, poof! Later Vader!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Padawan star 1

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    May 19, 2020
    Obi-Wan realized that there was no way he was going to be able to contend with Vader and the stromtroopers in order to reach the Falcon. Obi-Wan looks over and sees Luke and Leia, the children of Anakin, getting ready to board that ship and he knew that the torch had officially been passed. Obi-Wan realized his adventures were over and Luke's were just beginning.
     
  13. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    He had been alone for years before his final meeting with Vader. I believe he felt like he was at the end of the road, and meeting Vader again was full circle, and time to attain closure and a sense of peace.
     
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  14. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 14, 2018
    Because George Lucas had to spice up the film somehow after taking out the sex and violence.
     
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  15. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 13, 2014
    Yet decided to leave in all the incest.
     
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  16. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I think Obi-Wan assessed the situation (like Yoda in ROTS) and, realizing he wouldn't be able to beat Darth Vader, let alone get past all the stormtroopers watching, realized there was no way out of the situation. I think he then realized it would be ok cos he could still help Luke as a force ghost.
     
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  17. The Senate

    The Senate Jedi Knight star 2

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    Feb 12, 2020
    Well Obi-Wan couldn’t defeat Vader on his own.He might damage him a bit or possibly even cut off a limb but Obi-Wan was greatly outmatched by Vader.Then there were troops all around him and even if he did defeat Vader he would be gunned down almost instantly.He sacrificed himself to hold Vader off while Luke escaped because he knew that Luke would be the one to defeat Darth Vader.Only way I could really see Obi Wan surviving was if Han or Chewbacca used the Falcons turrets to shoot down the stormtroopers and have Obi Wan Force lush Vader back fat enough so he could escape.
     
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  18. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 24, 2019
    He saved that for the sequel ;)
     
  19. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    In fact quite a good idea. I never even considered that option. We saw this is possible when the Falcon escaped from Hoth. Han or Chewie should be the one to have thought of that. If precise enough they could even have shot at Vader, at least to drive him back so that Kenobi could escape.
     
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  20. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    I’m inclined to think there was an element of premeditation.
     
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  21. The Senate

    The Senate Jedi Knight star 2

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    Feb 12, 2020
    Only reason I could see Han saving him is so that he could end up getting paid.Leia probably didn’t know where the guns on the ship were and Chewbacca was busy getting the ship ready to fly.If only Luke were faster or Artoo thought about saving him.
     
  22. BRE

    BRE Jedi Master star 2

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    Nov 30, 2009
    Interesting, I've never heard this before. I know that lightsabers are connected to their creator, kind of like the "wand chooses the wizard" concept from Harry Potter, but I doubt that the light saber was dying because of Obi-Wan being old and weak, that doesn't make sense to me.

    How did Luke's lightsaber work after Luke died, if so?
     
  23. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

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    May 18, 2017
    I don't know but I just always assumed this. Building a light saber is a sign of being powerful in the Force, so I assumed some of the Force went into it otherwise you'd just have to be a handy mechanic. Han only used it for a second and Rey and even Grevious have been trained in the Jedi arts, or in Rey's case, she was strong with the Force. I could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  24. BRE

    BRE Jedi Master star 2

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    Nov 30, 2009
    Finn used it for an entire duel - he isn't Force sensitive is he? I could be wrong about that one to be fair, unless it's covered in a book or I missed an in-passing comment I thought he was just a regular human. Shame though, I had hoped for a Force-sensitive turncoat Stormtrooper.
     
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  25. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I thought Finn was. But that is a good point. Maybe it's like a battery, and without the Force you can use it for a while.
     
    BRE likes this.