CT Why did Obi-Wan allow himself to be killed?

I really hope he wasn't. If he was, then that was a really poorly done job. Leia never thought to also train Finn?

 

Have you seen Rise of Skywalker? That answers your questions.

 

I have, but still got questions. Maybe didn't pay attention enough? It did feel like a lot of things were handled in-passing though. Did it confirm Finn WAS Force-sensitive?

 

I don't think it actually confirmed it but hinted around at it when Finn wanted to tell Rey something but never did. Unless I missed it too!

 

One big question I have always had that is linked to the original post is did Obi Wan allow himself to be killed or did he disappear?
I remember seeing both explanations in different Star Wars literature from around that time. Watching the movie it looks like he disappears before Vader hits him with the lightsaber.

 

That would have been the first and only time in the entire saga that a Jedi could just "disappear". Not that it's completely impossible though. But why do we never see other Jedi do that trick? Or maybe it's something only possible fractions of a second before physical death? We will never know.

 

He allowed himself to be killed, which triggered his physical self to disappear.

 

Yoda disappeared when he died, as did Luke.

 

That's the whole point, AFTER they died. But someone wrote Kenobi disappeared BEFORE Vader hit him. In fact it does look like that in the movie.

 

He had to go and start working on filming for his character in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.

 

Maybe he got sick of having a hairpiece glued to his head.

 

Because Obi-Wan was the first to learn to become a force ghost before he had passed. Qui-Gon had learned to maintain his consciousness, but Yoda and Obi-Wan had learned to take it further and become force ghosts. So when they both passed on, their bodies disappeared to become their physical manifestations in the afterlife.

 

Technical reason is Alic Guinness was only going to do one film.

Thematic reason is Obi-Wan looks at Vader and then at Luke, he knows Vader is Luke’s father and wants Luke to confront his father and become a true Jedi. No Jedi can finish his training until he faces the Dark Side.

 

It's just a bad effects shot. They tried having a dummy get cut in half and then fall in two halves, but they couldn't get it to drop the right way so they ended up doing what you see in the final film. Obi-Wan is supposed to get killed and disappear before his body falls, leaving only robes, but the actual shot looks bad.

The same people who say that Obi-Wan disappeared BEFORE he got killed probably also try to come up with in-universe explanations for why Obi-Wan's lightsaber keeps flickering out, or why there is a giant smear hovering under Luke's landspeeder in that one shot in Mos Eisley.

 

From what I've read, the death of Obi-Wan was a late change and Alec Guinness had already been cast when Lucas changed it. So he had to tell him that he was getting killed and I've seen some comments that Sir Alec was not that pleased at the idea. But I could be wrong.
Obi-Wan was supposed to escape with the others but he did not have that much to do during the rebel attack.
So Lucas decided to kill him off.

And thus had to create Yoda for the second film as now Luke needed a new teacher.

As for Vader being the father, that was not the plan when ANH was made so not really a reason why Obi-Wan dies.

The reason in the film is this, he is trapped and can not escape but sees that Luke and co can.
So he sacrifices himself so that they can get away.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

I've never heard that Obi Wan was supposed to live. Interesting.

 

I have heard that. It used to be the story was Guinness hated the role and begged Lucas to kill the character off, but now the story is the polar opposite.

 

Yeah it's weird (if true) that Alec did not want to be killed off because I've always heard he did not like being in SW. My guess is it was not his thing, but sensed it would be very popular.

 

His name is derivative of the Greek word Kenosis, which means to empty oneself. The idea is also early Christian, meaning that part of Christ’s experience on earth was human and not completely divine. How does one kill a god after all? Mainly his character represents a denial of the self in order to reach the divine. A strict practice of humility in order to prepare his soul for the eternal. He humbled himself before Darth Vader in part for the sin he perpetrated on his fellow human.

That’s the dramatic, character reason. The narrative purpose was to add some weight to the film, making his demise the pivotal plot point at the end of ACT II which segues to the climactic ACT III. Besides, what was Ben going to do? Stand around brooding about the outcome of the Battle of Yavin? Also, his transfiguration or transcendence invites the audience to ask questions about his nature. What did he mean precisely when he stated that striking him down meant he’d become more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine? It’s beautiful storytelling.


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To be fair, it was 1977 and Lucas was just trying to figure out how all this was supposed to work. Compared to the tech we have now, yeah it looks bad.

 

Well, he could have started to train Luke for one thing. And I'm sure he could have Force-talked to Luke's mind at the battle of Yavin even when alive. Had Luke started training earlier he might have been ready to face Vader and possibly defeated him, not necessarily kill him but make him unable to fight back, basically what he did in ROTJ. He may even have succeeded in turning his father back to the light side. So it's not that Ben would have been totally useless alive.

 

Yes, but the point is, as Lucas realized, he had nothing dramatic for Ben to do in ACT III. His sacrifice (the ideal of a Jedi) provides the perfect climax in ACT II heading into the final battle. It creates doubt in the audience. How will Luke do what needs to be done without his revered mentor? We also feel sad for Luke. What’s more, the moment represents a conclusion of the master’s relationship to Darth Vader his former pupil and Obi-Wan’s arc. Consequently, the audience begins to ask and wants to know what exactly happened between Ben and Darth that led to this confrontation? It is a story for another time.

Old Ben is the guide with a talisman. He’s a means to an end, not the end itself. The end is Luke’s self-actualization. It’s like asking “Why did Artoo have to be blasted and ‘I lost Artoo’ moments before Luke nails the final shot?” Lucas wanted to emphasize the hero’s achievement as singular. No help. Using the force and his own ability. He’s grown from farm boy to budding Jedi and making his dream come true.


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Sure, I get all that. And I by no means dislike Lucas' decision to have Ben killed by his former student. Story-wise it's perfectly fine and makes sense. I was only replying to the statement that he wouldn't have anything important to do in ESB. But I agree with your argument why it's "better" and creates more tension that he was killed. The sequels would have had to be completely different if he had survived.

 

Though I get how it made sense for the narrative of ANH, I would've actually loved if Obi-Wan survived ESB, helping Yoda train him, then did the sacrificing thing in ROTJ. IMO that could've also worked nicely. I wouldn't have minded seeing more of Obi-Wan in action.

 

Vader’s “Your powers are weak old man” speaks to Ben having emptied himself in the intervening years, preparing himself for his role as guide and guardian angel. He also knew, as did Vader, that there was unfinished business between the two that would need to be resolved. One might view Ben’s sacrifice as an act of love and redemption for transgressions against humanity regarding Anakin. Ben’s power was no longer physical but predominantly spiritual. You would not have seen Old Ben in action. As he said, he was “getting too old for this kind of thing”. The dialogue and the visuals reinforce the answer to the OP’s question.


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