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CT Why did Obi-Wan allow himself to be killed?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by sith_rhino, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. Lobey-One Kenobi

    Lobey-One Kenobi Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 30, 2009
    I always saw it that, as well as wanting Luke to and co to be able to escape, he wanted Luke to fully embrace becoming the Jedi and assisting the Rebel Alliance - a martyr to the cause, but not necessarily the Rebel cause. The cause of continuing the Jedi on, by instilling a stronger need for redemption in Luke.

    What's quite interesting about this theory (also possibly throwing it off) it could be argued that by doing that, Obi Wan is knowingly risking instilling hatred and a desire for revenge in Luke - which seems contrary to the principles and rigidness we know Obi-Wan to have over Light Side and Dark Side actions/ motives.
     
  2. sith_rhino

    sith_rhino Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 9, 2007
    Yes, I also read that Obi-Wan was initially not going to get killed, and that Sir Alec was not pleased when he found out that his character was going to die.
     
  3. Wu Wei Jedi

    Wu Wei Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 8, 2021
    Obi-Wan disappeared before he was struck because he was already dead.He died of sickness a year prior to ANH but was powerful enough to make a force copy of himself until his mission was completed.
     
  4. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    According to the "Making of Star Wars" book, Guinness was, indeed, displeased about the late decision. But, when Lucas explained the dramatic reason behind it (that Kenobi, after the Death Star escape, didn't have much to do for the rest of the story), Guinness accepted the idea.
     
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  5. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    I actually believe this was one of the reason SAG was cranky with fans afterwards, he'd put a lot into the role of being a mentor to Luke, down to rewriting his script in a notebook and adding notes on how he should play various scenes. What's strange is having Obi-Wan survive would've gone against Joseph Campbell's template that GL was following, how could the hero step out on his own two feet if the mentor is still their to hold his/her hand?
     
  6. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    I'd understood it was more that he figured his OT role was just a job. He gave it a good effort, but it was not a big deal. He figured it overshadowed other roles in his career that he considered much better, and didn't get the big fan reaction.
    By the way, I understand Peter Cushing was also disappointed his character was killed off. But, for him, it was because he enjoyed making the movie and would've liked to return in a follow-up.
    Sorry, strayed off-topic there.
     
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  7. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Well, naturally, who doesn't love a job that you can do in slippers?
     
  8. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    That doesn't tally with his own biography, he says he took the role because he'd always wanted to play a mentor, verifying it in TV interviews, his meticulous planning for the role would also indicate he was quite invested in the film. It's fair to say that he didn't understand sci-fi or that kind of fantasy film nor was a fan of the genre but saw in the Joseph Campbell template the role of mentor in A Hero's Journey. His subsequent reaction, soured relationship with the fanbase was unfortunate and in hindsight it's said he actually softened his opinion in the years prior to his death. I've said for years on here that had it not been for ANH many younger people wouldn't have even bothered to watch SAG in his other roles, it really opened up his work to a whole new audience.

    I don't think this is off subject, it's a consequence of the OP's question.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  9. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 26, 2009
    Time to pass the baton
     
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  10. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    I haven't read his autobiography. That's very interesting. Thanks for the info.
     
  11. Wu Wei Jedi

    Wu Wei Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 8, 2021
    SAG played the role as if he really saw the past before his eyes. He was definitely invested in this film.I admire his performance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  12. Dr Silva

    Dr Silva Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Aug 23, 2021
    Obi-wan knew he wasnt gonna get out alive once he went to confront Vader ,so hed been planning on joining the force, he went on one last mission with the full intention of passing on and still helping Luke.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  13. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

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    May 18, 2017
    Wasn't Obi Wan's light saber fading at one point? he was old and his powers were fading, as Vader gleefully pointed out. He knew he was no longer a match for Vader. But he could distract them so the others could escape.
     
  14. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    That was just the technical limits of the era — his lightsaber was working just fine.
     
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  15. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Agreed that OWK's flickering saber was simply a tech glitch, but some people choose to see it as an indication of his weakening powers. I don't see any issues against that interpretation.
     
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  16. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    I think much of that was Vader taunting him, I doubt he really believed it. Palpatine was older that Obi-Wan and was possibly as powerful as ever, though he played the frail old man.
     
  17. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 4, 1998
    So, trash-talking? Yeah, I can buy that.
     
  18. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 27, 2014
    If we ignore that Vader being Luke’s father was added in ESB, then I think its because Kenobi wanted to become a Force Ghost so he could help Luke wherever he is: Death Star Trench, Hoth, and Dagobah.
     
  19. HanSolo98

    HanSolo98 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 9, 2022
    Obi-Wan knew that Vader was Luke's father and he knew that in order for Luke to become a Jedi, he had to overcome his anger towards Vader. This anger would be added to if Luke saw him kill Obi-Wan. If Kenobi had stayed alive, there would be an easy way out when it came time for Luke to face Vade in ROTJ.
     
  20. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    How about this, as a side note. Throughout the duel, Vader has taunted Kenobi over how old & weak he'd become, and how his apprentice was now superior. I wonder if that smile Kenobi had before the end had a bit of, "Oh, yeah? Watch this!", in it. As in, Kenobi was about to pull a trick that no Sith could ever do, and that Vader had no knowledge of. Ben had to be at least a bit amused thinking about the "What the %^&*?!" look Vader would have on his face when his triumph was totally short-circuited.
     
  21. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    JC's heroes' story has more ""beats"" than there are in ANH. Not every movie has to follow every story beat; it's just that JC noticed that almost all stories included tons of the same beats, even though not every story has every beat.

    Almost everybody on production realized that, if everyone escapes the Death Star alive, then the threat is no longer credible so it was decided that Obi-Wan would be the one to die.

    ANH didn't have to include that beat, but I think hitting that beat was beneficial for the story.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
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  22. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

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    May 18, 2017
    I feel like some put the cart before the horse with Campbell. He was pointing out patterns in mythology and literature; not saying this was some template that every story needs to follow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  23. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Indeed, and while Obi-wan was able to provide guidance, it was Yoda who had to train Luke, so Yoda became the replacement "Mentor" figure. And Ben was also helpful to provide the necessary back story for Anakin and Palpatine. Sure, Yoda coulda done this, but Ben was such a popular character that it made sense to bring him back in limited form.

    In the end, Campbell's work was more about observations of similarities in stories, rather than a set of rules for writing them.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
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  24. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 14, 2018
    On the other hand, Harry also defeated a Dark Lord as an infant baby, which makes the Harry Potter series more like The Further Adventures of Elora Danan from WILLOW. ;)
     
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  25. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
    I can't really think of a good reason for Obi-Wan's death in ANH. The most I can think of is he thought he needed to distract Vader while the OT 3 were running around. But weighing the worth of him living, the fact that Luke already has motivation to be a Jedi to defeat Vader, and the fact that he's around in "spirit" after that anyway, I think his sacrifice was pretty needless. Utility-wise, it doesn't really seem to accomplish anything, not even as an excuse to introduce a new Jedi Master character in Yoda. There was no reason they both couldn't have taught Luke on Dagobah.