PT Why did Palpatine misread Amidala? Or did he?

It's maybe a flaw in TPM, at least fairly underdeveloped, but it's also pretty interesting ...

Palpatine is generally really good at understanding people in order to manipulate them and yet his assessment of Queen Amidala, that he tells to Gunray, is that she is "young and naive" and can be easily controlled, made to be compliant. The Amidala we see, though, except for maybe the very beginning, seems quite proud, resilient, defiant (although Palpatine is able to get her, on pretty compelling grounds, to turn against Valorum and so aid his rise) and very bold.

Was she initially pretty timid and grew bold? TPM junior novelization and I think some other tie-in books claimed that she became bold in large part from Anakin's example and that he won the race while the Queen Amidala journal book presented her as pretty proud and bold from the beginning but feeling restrained by the protocol and diplomatic expectations of the royal office and eventually realizing, especially when she revealed she was Padme Amidala, she could be a different kind of queen, she really had two sides of her personality and started using both.

 

Perhaps by describing her as young and naive he was manipulating Gunray into doing what he wanted. Palpatine saw everything; he was 2 steps ahead of everyone, including the Jedi.

 

Well, remember Palpatine was caught by surprise by Anakin & Luke in RotJ. He's a mastermind, but he is confounded by selfless love and devotion to others. He hadn't seen Padmé backed into a corner before, and underestimated her determination to protect her people and their sovereignty despite the overwhelming pressure.
Which included her ability to reconcile and unite the Gungans & the Naboo. Things he likely thought improbable.



And as Luke astutely declared to Palpatine's face, his overconfidence is his weakness.

Amidala's actions serve as a great first example of the Sith's plans creating circumstances which backfire on them when their adversaries act on emotional concepts they don't grasp.

I haven't read any of those, but be it as it may, it does parallel Anakin, so take it as you will...

 

But Padmé is actually young and naïve at the beginning of the film. Loosing the innocence by assuming your role and responsibilities in life is one of the themes of TPM. Padmé, Obi-Wan and Anakin start their own hero´s journey in which they have to leave their comfort zones and the protection of their mentors at some point to find their own place in the universe.

In the case of Padmé, she is forced to leave her home planet behind, hoping the Senate will resolve the invasion conflict. She becomes a friend of a gungan when both Naboo inhabitants always try to avoid any contact between them and don´t trust each other. She sees with her own eyes that there are some really unfriendly places in the galaxy like Tatooine, which is controlled by a gangster and where slavery still exists and, despite of all this, there are good people willing to help a bunch of strangers without asking anything in exchange. She watchs how the Senate is more worried about discussing things in a committee than resolve the real problems of the people.

She has to assume her responsibilities and take her own decisions and be the Queen that her people and the whole planet need her to be. She is still young, but no longer naïve and easily controlled at the end of the movie. Palpatine trully underestimated Padmé; she is able to grow up really fast and he didn´t expect that to happen.

 

It’s especially telling when after she says she’d go back to Naboo, Palpatine has this look of worry on his face — this was exactly the last thing he thought she’d do.

 

In the prequel trilogy we see Palpatines skills at manipulation and deception but more subtly we also see his shortcomings. He does have to revise certain aspects of his plan as he goes along and he has a few missteps and makes a few mistakes. He underestimated the “primitive” gungan armies just as he will do with the Ewoks and he underestimates people’s capacity to change and grow. He can see the future but he has some blind spots as well.

It makes him more believable and human that he doesn’t perfectly plan every little thing and foreshadows or perhaps plants the seed for his ultimate demise.

 

Palpatine isn't perfect and his arrogance sometimes betrays him, he's just really good at making unforeseen scenarios eventually work to his advantage. I think him misreading or underestimating Padme was just another instance of his arrogance blinding him. After all, It was also his own arrogance that led to his own death and the defeat of the Empire.

 

Palpatine does manage to turn Padme's change of plans into a victory for himself. But it cost him Darth Maul. Did her victory on Naboo help him get elected chancellor or would that have happened either way?

There is so much against Padme, Palpatine doesn't seem to be rooting for her. The droids out match the Gungans. The odds are against stopping the control ship. and Darth Maul is in the palace.

How would things have played out if Maul wasn't killed by Obi-Wan? Does Palpatine call off Maul and give Padme the win? I doubt the Queen's guard could stop Maul if he was coming after her.

In Attack of the Clones did Palpatine foresee Padme taking Anakin back to Tatooine? It's a similar show of action from a place of compassion?

 

I think Palpatine intended Maul to take out the two Jedi and have the droid army wipe out the gungans and maybe kill Amidala and keep Naboo under the control of the trade federation. He could have even gotten the clone wars started sooner that way with the trade federation effectively owning Naboo and it would continue sympathy support for Palpatine as Chancellor.

It's important that Palpatine succeeds despite his mistakes and mishaps because that's what adds to his overconfidence in the OT. His hubris and glee at ultimately winning blinds him to the fact that aspects of his plans had to be changed and how close he came to not achieving what he wanted.

 

Palpatine's focus doesn't seem to have been on Naboo, very much. He seems to have been away from it long enough to misread what padme was actually like. I'm sure their dealings were generally very courteous and respectful ... to say nothing of being superficial.

 

I always found it interesting the way Palpatine could basically adapt any event and work it into his plan. TPM is the best indication of this, so much goes awry for him, and yet he still ends up pretty much exactly where he wanted to be.

 

Yes, he is good at reading people. But Palpatine is also not omnipotent. He can and has made mistakes in reading people. I think this is due to his own arrogance, which I consider to be one of his Achilles heels. Palpatine had to more or less keep his arrogance in check during the PT, but he still managed to make mistakes. He had misread Padme. He didn't realize that Anakin would never leave the unconscious Obi-Wan behind on Grievious's ship. Nor did he ever realize that manipulating Anakin and Padme to spend time together, would eventually bite him in the ass over a quarter century later. Even Palpatine was capable of flaws . . . in both trilogies.

 

Lol. I love how you worded this because it's true.

 

he underestimated her, just as he did Luke.

 

I think yeah, Palpatine saw Padme as naïve and easy to control with enough pressure. But her heroism and idealism meant that he had to work a bit harder than he had planned to.

 

Hm, I think some of his consternation over her actions in TPM may also stem from the upcoming selection of a new Chancellor.

Palpatine got what he wanted with her casting a vote of no confidence in Valorum. However, he didn't foresee her going back to Naboo in order to try and drive off the Trade Federation. There were two other candidates up for nomination as the new Chancellor besides him. What if she succeeds in driving off the Trade Federation before the special vote/election of a new Chancellor can be finalized?

In this instance, I could see how he may have felt the need to rush any manipulations/plans he had that would help ensure his election to the post in case she miraculously won the day on Naboo somehow. Either way, it's a testament to his adaptability that he could take such an unforeseen circumstance and still turn it to his eventual advantage

 

I'm guessing he was lying to Gunray to keep him on the hook.

 

Palpatine underestimating Padmé is a recurring theme in Prequel Trilogy and The Clone Wars animated series. After all, Palpatine didn't expect Padme to single-handedly halt the funding bill for 5 million clones by reciting a story about the common citizens. He was shocked and internally angry. And I don't think that is a coincidence.



What caused the downfall of the Emperor in Return of the Jedi? Was it the Ewoks? The Rebel Fleet? No, it was Luke Skywalker declaring himself to be a Jedi and thus incorruptible to Sidious' temptation. And Luke was the son of Padmé, something that the Emperor had long forgotten. He was so invested in Luke's connection to Darth Vader that he fails to see Luke as a combination of both Anakin and Padmé. Luke may be hot-headed and easily angered like his father but he has compassion and faith like his mother. It was as if Padmé herself had came back from the grave to sabotage the Emperor's plan one last time.

And of course, old Sidious decides to drop the act and slowly kill Luke with Force Lightning for defying him. And yet again, Palpatine had forgotten that it was Padmé's life that motivated Anakin to turn to the Dark Side and become Darth Vader, and Vader wasn't going to allow their only son to die just because he still had faith in Anakin's goodness despite everything he's down. That mistake earned him a trip down to the reactor with an explosive conclusion.

Ironic, Palpatine's worst enemy wasn't Master Yoda or Mother Talzin. It was always Padmé Amidala, who didn't even realize that she has been sabotaging Palpatine's long term plans. Heck, in deleted scenes, it's revealed that she laid the foundation for the Alliance to Restore the Republic through her Senate bills (that were never passed), speech drafts, and meetings with future Rebellion leaders. I guess what they say is true. Little moments like these do matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

He has two moments. One where he is with her in her quarters and tries to get her to stay. And the other is as Sidious while talking via hologram right before he tells Maul to let them make the first move.