CT Leia Mega-Thread, formerly Why did Princess Leia criticize her "rescue" on the Death Star?

No, because Han makes it quite clear that he wouldn't take orders, so she gives up. Also, shortly after that Han proves that he isn't as useless as she thought, when he shot and chased those stormtroopers. That distracted the enemy and gave Luke and Leia a chance to get away. At that point even Leia admires Han's bravery, and this is where Luke starts to get jealous. In the heat of the moment in the cell block she makes fun of Han but on Yavin completely accepts his decision to not join the battle. This is where she shows her true character, that she would not force anyone into fighting for the Rebellion against his will.

Sure, with more time they could have done that, but they were kind of in a hurry. And had they known before there was no other way out of the detention block, what were their options? The only one I can think of is not rescue Leia at all. Han might be foolish but he wouldn't consciously have done something that would have gotten him killed. He said as much before the last battle, "...it's more like suicide". Han wouldn't have gone to the cell block, leaving Luke to either go by himself or forget about the rescue as well.
We don't know exactly how much control R2 had. Maybe he could only stop garbage presses but not turn off alarms? Even if he could, sooner or later someone would have reactivated it, probably sooner. He couldn't turn off the tractor beam either, or else Ben wouldn't have had to do it manually. That shows us that there are limits to how much an R2 unit can do.

This raises the question how long a power pack lasts. It's not answered in the movies. How about those things on the stormtroopers' belts and Chewie's ammunition belt? I always assumed those were blaster power packs. So they would not have run out of firepower any time soon. Of course I did not literally mean "forever", but they certainly could have fought their way back to the doorway (where there were lots of blasters and ammo), which was only an elevator by the way, so the number of enemy reinforcements coming in was very limited anyway.
And what would Vader have done? I got the impression it was his idea to let Leia and the others go in order to track the Falcon to the Rebel base. It was Tarkin who wanted Leia executed in the first place. If they wanted to keep them on the DS why not make sure the tractor beam was still active or simply reactivate it while the Falcon was still in range? And Leia herself made it clear that "they let us go" and "are tracking us". In fact, if she was that sure why go to Yavin at all? They could have hidden at another location and taken their time to remove all tracking devices. They were SAFE once they were in hyperspace and could have gone anywhere, making repeated jumps from planet to planet if necessary. Without the Falcon leading the DS the Rebel base was safe as well. Besides, Vader was more interested in taking revenge on his old master than capturing Leia, Luke and Han. If he had wanted to he could have done so.

No, not undervaluing anything, just saying that Luke and Han weren't complete idiots either. While they weren't great strategists (understandably!) they were good at improvising. And I'm sure Han had gotten himself out of many difficult situations before by skills with a blaster, fast reaction and instincts. And again, why DID Leia choose to go to Yavin when she was so sure they were being tracked?

 

She's not making fun of Han in the cell bay, but stating a fact. They're incompetent. As to later on, Han wasn't distracting the Stormtroopers, but being foolish by trying to take them on. That's why when they stop and turn around, in both versions, Han realized his mistake in having done so. He showed reckless initiative that almost got him killed. As to Leia's comments on his bravery, she's being sarcastic there.

No, they weren't. They had enough time to strategize and come up with a working plan that would work.

Like I said, working with Artoo, they could time it so that the alarms would be shut down surrounding the detention center and deactivate that defensive weapons, so that the main command center wouldn't know that there was blaster fire in the detention center. Then it would be a simple matter of killing or stunning the Imperials in the cell block,
grab Leia and get back to the hangar.

And yet, Han went into the detention center knowing how it was a bad idea. And to say that he wouldn't do something that would get him killed, yet he does it repeatedly.

We'll never know because Luke and Han were in a rush and didn't come up with a better plan. We know what Artoo is capable of as we saw in each film where hacked into the Republic, Imperial and Confederate systems.

Yet, they were concerned that they wouldn't be able to get out. Hence the need to escape.

Right, but they don't know that. Not to mention that they didn't know that the beam was deactivated, as the base would have been alerted sooner.

She says that after getting into hyperspace and is referring to that part of the escape, not before in the detention center and not in the garbage masher. And as you noted, Han wouldn't obey her orders to stop.

Given how Luke and Leia roll their eyes at Han in ROTJ, they know that he's not that good at improvising. And she couldn't order Han to stop and check the Falcon. Remember, he takes orders from no one.

 

Incompetent? No, simply making the best of a situation they had not foreseen. Han was distracting the troopers by being recklessly confident. The outcome is the same. He himself got him and Chewie into danger but allowed Luke and Leia to escape. Call it foolish or call it brave, he did manage to engage those stormtroopers for a few seconds to let Luke and Leia get away. Sure Han made a mistake, but it was all made in good intention. Maybe not consciously, but by taking that risk he did save the others.
Leia was not being sarcastic. "He sure has a lot of courage" was meant sincerely. How many times had she seen someone running after stormtroopers before?

Depends. I don't see how a few minutes could have been enough to study the plans in detail. I repeat, Han did have a plan, even if not very detailed.... get the princess and then fight their way to the Falcon and escape from the DS. The details had been changing every minute, so all they could do was improvise.

And like I said, R2 may not have been capable of turning off any alarms. His abilities were limited to shutting or opening garbage compactors' doors as well as shutting down their mechanism. Beyond that he didn't have much control.

Han was also eager to fight and tired of sitting and waiting to be found. So he went along with Luke's plan. Also he was confident enough that a good blaster and his aim would have been enough to shoot down most of the enemy. He didn't seem that concerned about getting shot by stormtroopers. Han was confident enough, and I never saw him worrying about getting shot down by the Empire. That's his character.

Well, those movies aside, R2 wasn't able to deactivate the tractor beam in ANH, regardless of what other qualities he may have had.

Yes, but even then she could have changed the destination to another planet. On the DS, what did Leia do to avoid being shot at by stormtroopers? Not much! If the Empire didn't want them to escape they wouldn't have, period. No planning on Leia's part, just Vader's plan to track the ship to the Rebel base.

If given plausible reasons, Han would have taken the Falcon elsewhere to check for tracking devices. He's not that stupid. Not taking orders doesn't mean he would not have taken any advice at all. Leia sure could have persuaded Han that a tracking device was installed, and that he had better check his ship before going to Yavin. But again, Leia wasn't in the mood to reason with Han, only expected him to follow orders. Had she approached him differently Han would have listened to reason and known that Leia had a valid point. I guess BOTH of them should have been more open to reason and facts, but both were too proud in their own way.

 

I agree. And what would Vader have done? Lol.

 

But they weren't on a rescue mission; they were glorified delivery boys. Why should they have a sophisticated rescue plan? I think they did well in the circumstances - got into the detention block (the hardest part) and released her.

As Family guy put it, she could have stayed there and rotted like a stuck up b-tch.

 

Or he could just shoot them and not chase after them.

No, it was sarcasm because if he gets himself killed, they're kinda screwed.

Han didn't have a plan.

HAN: "He's the brains sweetheart!"

Luke did and it was poorly planned out and executed. Han never had a plan. Obi-wan was the one who came up with the plan of hiding on the Falcon. Obi-wan was the one who came up with the plan of taking out the Stormtroopers and going into landing bay's command center. And it was his plan for them to wait until he came back from shutting down the tractor beam. All Han had was impulsive behavior. And as to taking a few minutes, that's the point. Patience is it's own virtue. Luke didn't just rush into Jabba's palace to rescue Han. He took months to prepare and take everything into account.

We'll never know because they never bothered to see.

No, he went along with the plan because of greed.

HAN: "Now, look, don't get any funny ideas. The old man wants us to wait right here."

LUKE: "But he didn't know she was here. Look, will you just find a way back into the detention block?"

HAN: "I'm not going anywhere."

LUKE: "They're going to execute her. Look, a few minutes ago you said you didn't want to just wait here to be captured. Now all you want to do is stay."

HAN: "Marching into the detention area is not what I had in mind."

LUKE: "But they're going to kill her!"

HAN: "Better her than me..."

LUKE: "She's rich."

HAN: "Rich?"

LUKE: "Yes. Rich, powerful! Listen, if you were to rescue her, the reward would be..."

HAN: "What?"

LUKE: "Well more wealth that you can imagine."

HAN: "I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit!"

LUKE: "You'll get it!"

HAN: "I better!"

LUKE: "You will..."


As Qui-gon said, "greed can be a powerful ally."

Because it had to be manually shut down. It wasn't linked to the network.

And as others noted, it was necessary because if they're going to destroy the Death Star, better to have it come to them than going hunting for it.

Uh...

Except if they were going to be allowed to escape, then the garbage masher wouldn't have been turned on and the door would have been unlocked.

Being sweet to him wouldn't change his mind. He's arrogant and thinks that he knows better and finds out that he doesn't.

Oh, I dunno know, why would anyone have a sophisticated plan? Just do it half-assed and don't complain when you're plan blows up in your face. Luke's standing there with a thumb up his ass look on his face.

First, that was intended as humor. Second, that sounds rather sexist to say that she cannot complain about their screw ups.

 

Really? They're four people with limited ammunition trapped in a cell block with one exit and an entire planet-sized space stations' worth of enemy troops on the other side. There's absolutely no way, short of incompetence so great that it would stretch the bounds of believability even for stormtroopers, that the heroes are getting out of there alive.

Leia didn't know that. Luke just showed up saying he was there to rescue her, only for her to find out seconds later that they basically just walked into the detention block and started shooting and now they're all going to die literally three feet away from the door to the cell she just left. As General Grievous would say, "That wasn't much of a rescue."

And at the very least Luke and Han should have realized before they left that they had absolutely no plan for getting out. Like, it seems like that's something that should have been pointed out by somebody. Instead they just decided to wing it like a high school book report.

 

Leia is a badposterior.

 

The entire scheme was Luke pulling things out of his butt on the fly and Han going along with it because he thought he would be paid well for it. They didn't go with the intention of rescuing Leia, in fact if R2 hadn't been a nosey parker they wouldn't even have known she was there in the first place. They concoct their little plan to get to her but as said have no plan at all about how to get back out again. Their intentions were good (well, Luke's were) but it WAS a shoddy rescue; if she hadn't taken action she would have either been recaptured or dead.

 

I never liked Leia, to be honest. Including because of this scene. We first meet her, this guy ran to save her... and what she's doing... criticizes, devalues and then rude... I think she's just a ***, that's all. Really, is it was impossible to treat with basic gratitude? You're being saved, actually...

 

Honestly, the way that Leia responded made her more endearing to me.

 

Leia owes the two ''rescuers'' no respect whatsoever - their quote-unquote plan would have either got her recaptured (and then executed) or just shot. Good intentions are great but as rescues go, it was straight up awful. Neither Luke nor Han seemed to have a clue about what to do once they'd actually gotten her out of the cell, which makes them getting that far kind of a moot point if they can't follow through by actually getting her OFF THE FRIGGING DEATH STAR.
Leia saved Leia exactly as much as Han or Luke did.

 

Saved only to be shot at by her captors. She's angry because they're the Keystone Cops. Trust me, you'd be mad too.

 

Completely disagree. It was always clear to me what the plan was. Kenobi went off to deactivate the tractor beam, so Luke and Han were pretty sure they could escape with the Falcon. So they did what was their only option, shoot their way back to the ship. How could they have known Vader would stop Kenobi? Also, how could they have known the cell block had no other exit? Should they have studied the DS's floor plans in detail for hours? Did they have time for that? No way.
And didn't Leia get them all in trouble as well? If getting into the trash compactor was such a brilliant idea, how come she never thought those things are made to compress its contents? I mean, she knew where exactly it was, but not what it could do??? Did she even know there was an R2 unit with her rescuers that could control such facilities? I don't think so. So basically she led them into a death trap. How would SHE have stopped the walls OR opened the door? Without the two droids, and Luke being able to communicate with them, they would all be dead.
Also remember, the original plan was to get to Alderaan, NOT to save Leia. But the DS got there first. Sure Han could have turned around instead of following the TIE, but that way Leia would not get saved either. They pretty much had to make very short-term decisions from the moment they were caught in the tractor beam. Considering all that was unexpected, they didn't do all that badly.

 

She didn't know they weren't there to rescue her, Luke came in and told her they're here to rescue her and with Kenobi. Things were moving fast, the only contact name she had was Obi-Wan and she didn't get to meet him.

 

The ACTUAL original plan was for Kenobi to turn off the tractor beam and then everybody flies happily off into the sunset. R2 found out that Leia was being held captive, Luke talked Han into a rescue attempt and they basically improvised the whole scheme from there. Did they have time to work out exactly how to get in and out undetected? No. Should they have maybe considered that they were going to have to get back out somehow? Yes, absolutely.
Between a lack of forward planning and Han's awful improv skills they got themselves pinned down, and Leia too. I don't see how Leia could possibly have known she was leading them into the compactor, what she was primarily concerned with was getting them OUT of the dead end corridor with a moon-sized battle station's worth of stormtroopers at the far end.
Leia didn't really have a plan for how to get out and without R2 her plan may well have failed too... BUT she was only in the position of needing to come up with a plan AT ALL because Luke and Han hadn't thought that far ahead.

 

Luke does tell her he's got R2 with him. And she sees him talking to Threepio on the comlink. She'd probably guess that R2 was wherever Threepio was.

 

Actually, she said to Han "into the garbage chute, flyboy", right after she blew the whole in the wall. So she definitely did know what it was. Since she knew they were jumping into a garbage chute, how come she didn't know those things are meant to compress garbage?

Oh, that's true, I forgot. Luke does tell her about her R2 unit. But did any of them know he could shut down a trash compactor?

Well, as I said earlier, the plan was to fight their way back to the ship. What else could they have done? Oh sure, they could have tried to put on the officers' uniforms they had killed and impersonate Imperials once again. Or maybe they could have said they were salesmen and wanted to offer an improved version of TIE fighters. Honestly, I have no idea what else they could have done than what they did. Have Han stand guard at the door? Scare the stormtroopers away like he did later? Or maybe Luke could have drawn his lightsaber and said "I'm a Jedi, like your boss, actually we are good friends, so you better not shoot at us"

 

Off the top of my head, pull the same scam they did in the first place to get in there - transportation of prisoners. But they went in guns blazing and shot that plan to pieces.

 

Maybe they could have had Artoo plug into the system and falsify a transfer order for Chewbacca while authorizing the troopers Han and Luke were impersonating to escort Leia to her execution.

 

Sorry, but ANH had always been "all guns blazing", so there was nothing out of style there. They went in, they went out, all the time shooting their enemies. I don't see how this is so much worse than the sequels. ANH is so much more straight-forward than any of the more complicated sequels. Wasn't it meant to be a Western in space? It worked well enough for me. Pure fun! I think this is the only episode where the audience can purely concentrate on the fun without having to think of all the political implications. This is why I enjoy STAR WARS the way it is. It doesn't need to complicate things. It's just a great action movie! For me it works perfectly.

 

I never said it was out of style. Nor did I ever actually say I don't like it - I do, very much. But it's definitely justifiable and in-character for Leia to be annoyed by the botched ''rescue'' in the story while we as an audience enjoy it.

 

Irrelevant. The point was to get them out of the detention center. Once that was done, then they could figure things out.

Obi-wan just told him a half hour ago that Artoo could hack into the Imperial network and Luke does tell Threepio to tell Artoo to shut down the garbage mashers on the detention level.

The point was to come up with a full plan and not wing it. That's why Leia was angry and took charge. The whole point wasn't to go in guns blazing. The point was to go in, trick them into thinking that they were transferring Chewie, hope that they were dumb enough to go along with it until they could get the drop on them. They just didn't have an exit strategy. That's why I said that if Obi-wan had been with them, they would have had one.

 

If Obi-Wan had been there when R2 discovered the Princess was aboard, would he have gone along with a rescue? I think so but I'm curious what others think.

 

Obi-wan would have still gone to shut down the tractor beam. To deviate for Leia would still jeopardize the whole mission. At best, he would have come up with a better plan for Han and Luke to execute. Or improve upon Luke's existing ideas. Course, in this case, he would have preferred it if Ahsoka and Ezra were around. Then there could have been at least one Jedi with them, while they were going off on their own.