main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

CT Why didn't Obi-Wan or Yoda tell Luke about the Midi-chlorians?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Dec 10, 2019.

Tags:
  1. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Uh, okay, I guess I'll just re-post exactly what I just posted? Not sure how else to respond to you re-stating exactly what you just stated with no further elaboration and without addressing anything that I said in response....

     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  2. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    No elaboration is necessary. The
    novelization is clear.
     
  3. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    In-Universe: They were running the clock so they had to give him the basics. Stuff like ‘ok, this is how you use the Force. Hold the lightsaber by the hilt, no the glowy thing’. Midichlorians seem to be a tier above the basic.

    Out-Universe: They weren’t invented yet :p
     
  4. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    I don't understand what it is you're trying to communicate.
     
  5. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Yes, this is not contradicted by the existence of midi-chlorians as the midi-chlorians do not represent an explanation nor a definition, but rather an observed phenomenon which has been linked to Force sensitivity.

    Simply because Jedi scientists have, apparently, observed that a higher midi-chlorian count corresponds to greater Force sensitivity does not indicate that the Force has been "explained" nor "defined".

    Agreed.

    Agreed; it is clear. There is no conflict between the novel and the PT.

    at least... not contained within these particular excerpts/quotes... ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  6. Krishna

    Krishna Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2019
    Yoda implanted much Force information within Luke's mind during the training that was not seen or perceptible by many in the given Movies. Especially through Force psychic communication. The reason it wasn't mentioned on-screen was because understanding Midichlorians is advanced Jedi stuff, remember it was mentioned only a few times in the prequels, and no Jedi brags about their Midichlorian count, and it is a secret thing. There is much, much more to using The Force and its abilities than Midichlorians. Even the atoms around you can use The Force.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
    Shadao and eko32eko7 like this.
  7. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Correlation is not causation. For all we know the midi-chlorian count is the result of force sensitivity/potential and not the cause. In which case they really don't matter other than as a marker. They also never go into whether someone's count can or does change over time. If they can then they could have nothing to do with potential,

    Of course the real reason they weren't mentioned is that they hadn't been invented yet... and then after TPM IIRC they were never mentioned again.

    I actually don't know why they bothered with them... they served no purpose and were thrown away after a single moment that would have been just as effective if QuiGonn just said he sensed a great power in Anaking or something.
     
    Nate787 and Sarge like this.
  8. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    That's an irrational assumption not supported by anything in the movies, in addition to being flatly contradicted by Lucas's own commentary.
     
  9. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015

    Nvm, there's nothing worth responding to here.

    Have a nice evening.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  10. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Thanks for the post, chief. Have an evening.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  11. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  12. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2018
    This is a good in-universe assumption. I find Luke's time on Degobah to be quite an interesting mystery. We clearly saw him trained, but we also know we were not with Luke and Yoda every single second and we don't really know how many seconds there were in total.

    There are several schools of thought on approximately how much time Luke spent there, but I believe that it is within the realm of reasonable to assume that, in the context of all six movies, midi-chlorians came up in some capacity, at some point. Other examples include lightsabers and mind tricks. I have no idea if Yoda provided any training, but I would be surprised if each didn't - at least - come up in conversation during the time that Luke was with Yoda and we just didn't witness it.

    ANAKIN : Master, sir...I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians?
    QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all
    living cells and communicates with the Force.
    ANAKIN : They live inside of me?
    QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.
    ANAKIN : Symbionts?
    QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the
    midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the
    Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.
    ANAKIN : They do??


    From the above, midi-chlorians:
    1. are a microscopic lifeform
    2. reside within all living cells
    3. communicate with the Force
    4. exist in symbiotic relationship with other living things
    5. continually speak the will of the Force
    While I see nothing here that indicates the Force has been "explained" or "defined" I also find nothing to indicate they "don't matter other than as a marker" as Qui Gon specifically notes that, without midi-chlorians, "life would not exist" and the Jedi would "have no knowledge of the Force".

    This is not mentioned, but I am certainly interested. I would love to see such questions explored slowly over the course of a sequel trilogy. I wonder... if that ever occurred to anyone... with the last name Lucas?

    The truth is we don't know. Perhaps it can change, but is incredibly difficult or rare. Perhaps increases and/or decreases throughout a lifetime, but, under typical circumstances, remains relatively stable. Perhaps there are rituals pertaining to such things; who knows? In the end, the whole conversation basically boils down to the dialog above. If it is mentioned there, then we know it. If it is not, we don't.

    Okay, perhaps. While I would argue this aspect of the conversation just isn't really any fun, I am also interested if you know of any quotes from GL indicating that this is true. I am very interested whether or not GL had ideas for such microscopic lifeforms early on, but hadn't named them yet or whatever. From what I have read over the last two decades, I think the concept of the midi-chlorians was born out of the development of concept of the Whills. Which, to me, indicates the underlying ideas behind the midi-chlorians were always there, just undeveloped.

    I assume you are referring to mentions within the films, specifically. If so, yes, they are mentioned by Palps in the infamous Opera Scene. Midi-chlorians are also mentioned in several Clone Wars episodes.

    They were introduced as part of GL's exploration of the mythologization of science. Consider the following quote:

    “I would say that all our sciences are the material that has to be mythologized. A mythology gives spiritual import - what one might call rather the psychological, inward import, of the world of nature round about us, as understood today. There's no real conflict between science and religion ... What is in conflict is the science of 2000 BC ... and the science of the 20th century AD.” ― Joseph Campbell
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  13. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    @eko32eko7 Thanks for the reminders! My memory of some of the ROTS details was definitely fuzzy.... food for thought.
     
    eko32eko7 likes this.
  14. Doompup

    Doompup Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2017
    In-universe:
    I would say that Yoda had an abbreviated, special curriculum that he had designed for Luke. Even if Luke had stayed to complete his training, I don’t think he would have been there for an extended period of time. IMO Yoda’s curriculum for Luke was probably just the stuff he needed to confront Vader and Palps, not any extras. The philosophy he taught was probably just the concepts Luke needed to avoid the Dark Side.
     
  15. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Hmm maybe they did but we never got to see those scenes?
     
  16. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd The Mandalorian / Manager of WNU/CT/Saga star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Did Luke even have a "need -to-know" about the existence of Midichlorians?
     
  17. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    “Luke you must complete the training”
    “Microscopic creatures living in my blood? Are you crazy? See you around old fool”
     
    Sarge, Doompup and christophero30 like this.
  18. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Luke I am your midiclorian.
     
  19. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Reminds me of an old skit I saw:

    VADER: “And the Force? Well, they’re just microscopic bacteria in your bloodstream called midichlorians.”

    LUKE: *smoking casually despite recently losing a hand and clinging onto the antenna thing* “Look, if you’re not gonna take this seriously, I’m out.” *throws self off*
     
  20. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    And, technically, Anakin wouldn't have known of them if it weren't for the Council and Qui Gon bringing up midichlorians. I doubt, in-universe, that there's much reason to know about them unless one is seeking Force-sensitives or wants to (potentially, I guess) harvest or manipulate midichlorians (i.e., Darth Plagueus).

    And, considering the trouble all that started, I could see why Ben or Yoda didn't want to tell Luke about this side of things.
     
    Sarge and Iron_lord like this.
  21. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2018
    No, I am your midi-chlorian.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  22. RandySolo

    RandySolo Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2018
    Exactly. They could have in between the scenes where we didn't see it. Or they could have just wrote about them in the journals they left for Luke in the twenty years they were in hiding on Tattooine and Dagobah.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
    Count Yubnub and eko32eko7 like this.
  23. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
  24. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Two main answers
    1) Maybe they did
    2) The reason Anakin was told was because he specifically asked. Otherwise it may not be an part of the beginner level Jedi curriculum.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  25. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Or maybe there were just too many pressing things for a science lesson.