PT Why didnt Padme save Shmi from Slavery ?

I agree it's a plot hole, but "character betrayal" is a tad melodramatic. After all, it's not as if Anakin asked her after he'd helped free Naboo from the invasion and she politely refused. Why didn't he, by the way? Maybe it's a character betrayal of Anakin?

 

Let’s hold the Queen responsible for her own inaction. Not blame the 9 year old who’d been recruited by a monastic cult & told to forgo all attachments.

 

I agree that would've been his preference in time. I also think it would've been harder for Anakin to see that in the glow of the moment, as a child carrying a childish optimism about the fairness of the world. After all Shmi urged him not to look back, so in a way Anakin trying to put his mother out of his mind for so long a time was a means of honoring her wishes. I understand if it doesn't work for you, but I found the whole slave plot to be an essential part of the PT's larger tragic atmosphere.

 

I have an alternate question. Is there a reason ANAKIN's super powered *** didn't save Shmi sooner? For all he knew from the time he bounced until his vision his mom was still a slave. It never occurred to him, say around 13 after he force choked the temple Loth Cat and was setting fires in the temple trash cans ( What-you thought that darkness just "suddenly" appeared) he would have figured out he could have easily stolen and piloted a ship and was tech savvy enough to disable any tracking or disabling widgetry and gone after dear mum?

 

I look at it less as a *plot hole* and more as a missed opportunity to flesh out Anakin's relationship with OB1 and Padme by weaving it into their character arcs. More than just a dream and the council and OB1 refusing Anakin the ability to do anything about it.

 

I think the unplanned introduction of Qui-Gon somewhat unbalanced Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme's relationship and then Lucas was too busy with establishing different themes and plot threads. Shmi had to stay on Tatooine in order to get married to Cliegg Lars so it's easy to see why Lucas didn't revisit it after Anakin left Tatooin in TPM.

 

It's easy to understand missed opportunities. There are so many that you are bound to miss at least one. That doesn't take away from the fact that they are missed opportunities.

 

Well if one wants to be mean spirited about it then Luke and Leia inherited Padme's mean spirit since Luke entirely forgot about Owen and Beru and Leia entirely forgot about Bail!

Clearly we've misread Padme's character!

There are lots of good reasons and many have been given already. The fact is that Padme didn't do it.

Once again this idea that characters should somehow be perfect, omniscient and know exactly what to do in all situations all the time. That's not how good characters work.

???

???

That's the point. Padme didn't like what Qui-Gon was doing.

The excuses are trying to make Padme do things she wouldn't and didn't.

So Tarkin was decent because he didn't destroy Yavin?

Is Padme kind, grateful and decent? Of course and yet she still didn't do something to free Shmi. So there were other reasons.

What is really wanted again is the whole "I want to know everything that every character thinks down to the last scintilla IF I disagree with their decisions."

It's very selective though. So clearly a detailed explanation of why Han came back help Luke in ANH is needed because we never did find out why from him.

Obviously a dialogue scene of Han explaining himself was missed out.

 

Instead of a back and forth about why she didn't do it, here's a possibility on how she could have with it only strengthening the movie themes. It doesn't just tack it on as a few lines of exposition, but becomes a part of Anakin's journey to the darkside, Anakin-Padme's relationship and marriage, the beginning source of Anakin-OB1 fractures.

AotC begins the same way for the most part. Anakin is nervous about meeting his childhood crush. But he isn’t already making inappropriate and snapping comments. He and OB1 are like BFFs each supporting the other because they have full respect for the other.

Anakin has moments with Padme, but he isn’t complaining about OB1. He isn’t creepy. At worst he has a barely detectable melancholy that is sharply outweighed by his Jedi aura. The council might even comment in passing that their fears in training Anakin might have been misplaced. They’ve accepted he’s the Chosen One lock, stock and barrel. He’s the exemplary Jedi.

Padme and Anakin have the love/compassion talk on the way to Naboo. Anakin thinks about his mother and his “love” for her. Padme notices and asks Anakin to share his mind. He refuses and says he is there for her protection and it isn’t his place as a Jedi to burden her with his problems.

Padme meets with the Queen’s council and have a similar conversation where the Queen makes it clear that Naboo has not changed its negative opinion of the Military Creation Act.

As they leave, Padme notices Anakin is unsettled again. Anakin says the Jedi cannot openly discuss politics, let alone a Padawan.

They have a few “moments” that can be described as unofficially romantic dates. They are purely positive with no baggage moments.

Padme tells Anakin they are having a secret dinner with her family. He will be there as her bodyguard officially, but she lets him know he’s really a welcomed guest.

Padme talks about the Military Creation Act with her family. Anakin drops out of the conversation when they venture into these areas. Padme’s father is conflicted and asks Anakin “I bet the Jedi could use some help”. Anakin hesitates and then says “we could”. Padme is surprised. “Is that how the Council truly feel? OB1 said ….” Anakin “Your father asked me. Not the Council. Not OB1. I didn’t answer as a Jedi. I answered as a person.”

This is the first real physical manifestation of Anakin’s mental state. And a call back to “I’m a person.”

The dinner conversation topic is changed and we “clock wipe” to Anakin and Padme leaving the house. Padme revisits the topic, but picks up that there is more to Anakin than this topic. She tells him she’s there to unburden his concerns. He brings up “My mother.” He can’t stand the fact that she is still a slave. That’s when he asks Padme “Can you free her?”

Now Padme looks sadly conflicted. She quietly says “Don’t ask me that.” (future reference to her request of Anakin in RotS). He then lets out “OB1 has said the Jedi cannot get involved. That even my freedom was a moral quandary for the Council. I was only accepted as a Padawan because Qui Gon had already forced it into motion. Had he asked for Council approval, he would have been denied. But we aren’t conflicts of interest. We’re people. But you don’t have that barrier.”

Padme: That’s not true. I may be a person, but I’m also currently the voice of an entire planet. It would be viewed as an abuse of power by some. Something like this could inhibit my political capital on something as important as the Military Creation Act.

Anakin: Something else the Jedi Council gets wrong.

<They go into the democracy / dictator talk, but in a serious manner> which leads to

Anakin: Sometimes I feel like I never left slavery. Sounds like you are bound from doing what is right as well. That’s the problem with political capital … or Jedi tradition. Some choices are easy. Somebody should just make them. Somebody strong. Somebody not worried about the fallout for doing what is undeniably right.”

Padme: Sometimes the quick answer becomes the problem.

Anakin: And sometimes the problem is just easy. I’m going to Tatooine.

Padme's expression suggests that a great burden has been lifted off her shoulders: “I think you’re right. I’m going with you. Let’s not create a new problem by breaking your Jedi Duty to keep watch over me. <with a smile> I don’t know what I’d do without you.”

<Everything goes the same with slight dialogue changes>

Watto: I sold her to an offworlder. Believe it or not, I heard she freed her. She sometimes comes to my shop to purchase parts for the Lars homestead.

Anakin goes to the Lars homestead with a smile on his face. His mother was free. Then Cliegg delivers the bad news.

Anakin goes on the Shmi rescue mission turned Tusken slaughter.

When he confesses his crime to Padme, she breaks down in tears.

Padme: This was a mistake. I’ve only made things worse.

Anakin: My guilt is not yours to bear.

Padme: But I’m the one that freed her. Corde was sent to free her and offer support until your mother could start her own life. She found love. This was supposed to be *the* happy ending. And now she’s ….

Anakin: What? You lied to me?

Padme: You were starting a new life. Your dream. It felt like this news would endanger that.

Anakin: That wasn’t for you to decide.

Padme breaks down crying.

Anakin: I’m sorry. I understand exactly what it is like to do good while not being able to speak your mind because of Senate rules or Jedi tradition. We are people, not soulless machines. You should be receiving my gratitude, not condemnation. Being a Jedi was my dream; second only to my mother’s happiness. You deserve better.

Padme: This trip was supposed to put your mind at ease. I sensed your frustration. Talk to me Anakin. People need to share their troubles.

<They go save OB1, Geonosis battle, on return trip to Coruscant. Anakin is with Padme in her ship. OB1 alone in a Star Destroyer room>

Anakin takes Padme’s advice. And for the first time, shares his real troubles with his brother figure, as opposed to his master.

Anakin: My mother is dead, OB1.

OB1: You don’t know that.

Anakin: I watched it.

OB1: Anakin. I’m so sorry. Death is a natural part of life.

Anakin: There was nothing natural about her death.

OB1: Anakin. Celebrate her life. Celebrate that her destiny became her own.

Anakin: What did you say?

OB1 has a look of horror on his face.

Anakin: You knew? Why can’t anybody treat me like a person? Padme ….

OB1: This is unfortunate.

Anakin: Unfortunate that I know the truth?

OB1: Your training had just begun. You weren’t ready for the burden. Padme told the Jedi Council to share the news of your mother’s freedom. We told her we would not and that it wasn’t her place to burden you with this news.

Anakin’s hologram image shuts off.

Scenes: Clone Army takes off. Balcony. Marriage.

 

Nice

Missed opportunities are pretty common with Star Wars once you get the cogs spinning.

With ESB, I’ve always felt that Leia should have been the forefront of the narrative using the force in parallel with Luke’s quest for being a Jedi. Rather ESB being half personal with Luke’s journey (and a quarter. This in reference to the end of the movie with the capture of Han and Leia) it would have been a full character piece.

Alas, what if-scenarios are just that. All imagination.

 

Thanks. Star Wars is probably one of the first events in many posters lives that seriously exercised our imagination and creativity. When it is done to enhance enjoyment without any assertion that it is anything beyond that, then I view it as a net positive.

I don't find simply pointing out problems (or defending everything as perfect as is) as being healthy.

But TESB is perfect. Did you ever play out your TESB thoughts? Anywhere between an outline to full blown fan fiction?

 

Perfection is a fabrication of the MYND

The flirtatious darkness in ESB is harder to look through.

“Hard to see, the clouds of the dark side is”

I don’t post many things about my “fan fictional” thoughts to be honest. I’ll talk to myself or others about it, perhaps more than briefly but no, not really.

 

I understand that. I only think about these things during interactions, such as this thread. When I woke up, I had never thought of any of that. Not even a single sentence thought. In fact, I never even really thought about why Padme didn't free Shmi. But once it was brought up, I couldn't deny it was a good question.

 

I think that this speaks very strongly to rhe inflexible and dogmatic thinking of the Jedi Order that helped lead to thier diwnfall.
Anukin realised that at nine years old he simply was not able to free his mother. By the time he would have been capable of carrying out a recuse he had been to indoctrinated to the Jedi way of thinking that the inner conflict paralyzed him from taking action.
IMO -IF the Jedi high cousul had rescued Shmi it would have helped stabilize Anakin emotionaly. Even if not allowed to see her, the very fact that his mother eas free and safe would have allowed Anakin some space to work thru his emotions and may have prevented his ultimite fall , even if Padme had died.
There are some breif passages in the ROTS novel where Mace and Ibi Wan talk about Anikins tests as rhe Choosen One. In regaurd to this relationship with Padme and I have to wonder if not rescueing Shmi was yet another test that ultimately came back to bite the Jedi big time.

 

Huh? They were dead. You're bringing up the separate issue of a character's thoughts. That's not what this debate is about. It's about actions, or a complete lack thereof. If Owen & Beru were left to rot in slavery, then we'd definitely be holding Luke to account. In fact he cared about them so much he refused to leave with Ben on the adventure of his dreams bcs he didn't have their blessing. Always with these topics you try to deflect to the other movies. Quite often though, as in this case it's all a smoke & mirrors distraction.

Okay, but perfection or omniscience are not required to free the poor slave woman who's help was crucial in saving your entire planet. More excuses.

However he should've seen how glaringly obvious it was to have the Queen of Naboo at least try to return the help that Shmi provided. @Samuel Vimes made the good point that the story could've all played out the same, except instead of Cliegg securing Shmi's freedom, Padme did. However Shmi chose to marry a local farmer on Tatooine & remain there. This does wonders for Padme as a character. Not only that, IMO it's a far better solution for the Cliegg-Shmi relationship. It's frankly a bit weird & borderline creepy that Cliegg purchased Shmi as a slave from Watto, then freed her & married her. Sam's solution here is vastly superior on multiple fronts.

 

Dude Padme didnt even know that Qui-Jon wanted to train Anakin as a jedi let alone free him. She wasn't there when Qui Jon told him the news, the only people who were present were Qui-Jon, Anakin and Shmi, so Padme didnt see any goodbye or any separation. In the film they all get back to the ship after the race, then Qui-Jon says he has unfinished business and goes back to Mos Eisley alone. If anything she probably assumed Qui-Jon took care of everything since him dealing with Anakin was his own matter and not related to her.

Yeah Anakin did help them win the Battle of Naboo but in Padmes eyes he was still that little boy from Tatooine, he wasn't some older hero who she could reward, he was just a kid. Again, I'm sure if Anakin had asked her she would of. But they all moved on with their lives.

 

Maybe, maybe not. She heard Watto make reference to even more bets, then she chastised QG for being reckless. Then they have a lot of time together watching the race. In any case does it matter? Padme knew they'd taken Anakin & left his mother alone in slavery.

 

Um she actually didn't, when she chastised Qui-Jon for being reckless it was the first bet he made and it wasn't during or after the race. The second bet was one that Qui-Jon himself instigated, and no one was present except Watto and himself. Watch the movie again. This is the 2nd time you've made references to something Padme ''knew'' or ''saw'' in the movie that did not happen at all.

"Padme knew they'd taken Anakin and left his mother alone in slavery."
You're acting like they ripped Anakin away from his mothers arms and forced him to become a Jedi. Shmi wanted this for Anakin. And Padme most likely assumed that after him becoming a Jedi meant that he was meant to have 0 contact with his family and is all business. Padme can relate to this, as she was 14 when she became Queen and had to be separated from her family till her terms were up. Again, if Anakin asked her she most likely would have, but she had more important matters to deal with than Anakins needs at the time.

 

Shmi is the Chewbacca of A New Hope.

 

You're mistaken. After QG made the wager for Anakin's freedom Padme heard Watto ridicule QG's gambling. Then QG gives Anakin advice about the race. Then Padme tells him he's far too reckless.

Hardly. Her family was safe at home on a wealthy planet, spending their days strolling by the lake guessing the names of the birds singing. Anakin's mother was a slave in the desert with explosives in her body. I don't think Padme can relate at all.

So she's a thoughtless ungrateful person. Agreed.

 

Palpatine certainly would not have used his chancellor status/role in this action. We've seen him affiliate with, use, and hire people and organizations "behind the republic's back" while acting as Sidious.

 

I'm starting to see why she didn't tell Anakin to take responsibility for the Tusken slaughter. She can't even manage her decade old To Do List.

 

What movie are you watching? I just watched from the Qui-Jon betting to the beginning of the race, no one hears Watto's and Qui-Jons bet except them. The only thing Padme does in that scene is ask Anakin if he's ever finished a race. Padme calls him 'reckless' before the race starts because she finds out that he's never finished or won a race and he's betted their survival on him winning it for the first time.

>Qui-Jon and Watto bet on Anakins freedom
>Padme and Anakin hop off the creatures as Kitser and Anakin tell Padme that he's never won/finished a race
>Transition into racing arena, Shmi hugs Anakin as Qui-Jon tells Anakin advice
> Shmi asks Qui-Jon if he's nervous, Qui-Jon says he's fine. Padme says you jedi are far too reckless.

Like I said in my previous post, it's 100% clear and obvious that she's referring to the original bet. No one knows about the 2nd bet Qui-Jon made.

Padme can relate to feelings of being separated from your family. How is she a thoughtless ungrateful person? Seriously stop trying to paint this picture of Padme being a heartless creature using false information like you've done above when it's based on nothing but your own opinion of her.

While Padme is getting a sun tan in Tatooine, her people are being put in camps, starving, suffering, do you think her mind is going to be on I want to free this slave? No. Throughout the film her mind is on her people. The onus is on her to help them and she wants to get out of Tatooine as quickly as possible. She isn't going to put her mind on other people's problems when she has her own people to save. Her people elected her to rule and protect them and that burden is placed on her. The PT goes to great lengths to demonstrate duty means a lot to Padme. Yes she does feel sympathy for Shmi, but she has her own duty to commit to. If you look at everything that happened to Padme/choices she's forced to make after they leave, it shouldn't be any surprise that everything that happened on Tatooine feels like a distant memory. AGAIN, Shmi DID NOT have a profound impact on Padme for her to be in her thoughts 24/7, however, for the 3rd time, if Anakin asked she would do it.

 

Why would Palpatine care about the Naboo freeing Shmi? If they set her up on his own home planet of Naboo he may even like that. In any case, Shmi is freed later by Cliegg. I doubt Palps cared about that either.

When did I say they did? I said Padme heard Watto ridiculing Qui-Gon's gambling when right after that bet he said this to Anakin: "Better stop your friend's betting or I'll end up owning him too." Which told her that QG had placed even more bets with Watto.

Sure. So? She had plenty of time to ask QG about the additional bets that Watto made reference to. She then saw that Anakin had been brought along & his mother left behind. I'm not sure what you're arguing about apart from trivial details.

For not THINKING of the lady they left behind in slavery. Who helped them when they had no other way out of their predicament on Tatooine. Who is the mother of the boy who just saved her planet.

Agreed. However when Shmi's son helped save Naboo & the Queen's people were safe again, that was the time to remember the kind slave woman who was left behind. Who helped make the victory possible. Who the Queen knew was alone, still a slave & living on a dangerous backwater with an explosive implant. Instead Padme's priorities were ticker-tape parades & Gungan dance choreography.

Then you're saying that Padme is a thoughtless selfish person who needs to be asked before returning an act of kindness. As Anakin said in front of her, the biggest problem is that nobody helps each other. The slave with nothing helps the Queen. The Queen with everything does nothing in return.

 

The only excuse I came up with is that she didn’t want to risk war with the Hutts over one slave, but how would that be a problem? Surely someone as rich and powerful as Padmé could simply send an agent in disguise to buy Shmi off of Watto and get her to Naboo.

I mean, sure, at that point in time, while she was on Tatooine, she had other things to worry about (aka, the Trade Federation invasion of her planet), but she had ten years of peace to do something for this one woman who helped them when they were at their lowest — stranded on an alien desert planet filled to the brim with the worst the galaxy had to offer. This smacks of, “If I can’t help everyone, then I’ll help no one.” Puts her character in a negative light when you think about it: she doesn’t seem all that eager to help who would eventually be the mother of her husband, and the grandmother of Luke and Leia (post-mortem, of course.)

My other idea that maybe she tried, but by then Shmi was already married to Cliegg Lars and presumably was busy raising Baby!Owen. If the whole point was to free her, then mission accomplished. She’s a free woman. Padmé had no reason to suspect that Shmi would be horribly killed ten years later. She presumed Shmi would spend the rest of her days peacefully farming moisture with hubby-dearest and growing old together.

It’s also possible that she probably did send an agent down to convince the Lars to go to Naboo, but they were all, “No, our place is here; our future is here. We’ll not give all that up to live on some planet we never heard of before.” I mean, if Owen Lars didn’t want Luke to go galavanting off into space on “some damn-fool idealistic crusade”, then why would Cliegg and Shmi go, “Sure, let’s just absolutely abandon what we’ve built here for ourselves and go galavanting off into space.” We have to presume Owen got his “our future is here, our place is here, we won’t go into space” mentality from his dad.