PT Why Didn't Qui Gon Jinn warn the jedi about order 66 and palpatine?

Qui Gon Jinn was able to communicate to the jedi (or yoda at least) after his death and before ROTS. After he died he would have known that Palpatine was Sidious and the clones would betray the jedi, so why didn't he warn them?

 

What makes you think he knew Palpatine was Sidious and the Clones would betray the Jedi?

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Well as he was one with the force wouldn't he have seen palps putting his hood up at least once, or talks about clones betraying the jedi. I kind of thought that since he was one with the force he could pretty much see all that was happening. It was something that was happening at that time in the present, just nobody was there to see it.

 

There isn't any indication that becoming one with the force somehow means you now know or witness everything there is. Otherwise Obi Wan could have warned Luke about a whole bunch of things, which he obviously didn't.

 

Did some research (i.e. googled a lot about force ghosts), apparently Qui Gon has stated that he could see through time. (Star Wars: From A Certain Point Of View)
Also (From Clone Wars S6 E11): He states 'I exist where there is no future or past'
Surely using this ability he would have seen the rise of Palpatine and order 66

For Obi Wan that also makes another interesting question. It was much easier for him, he could just follow Vader and Palpatine around and then warn Luke. So why do force ghosts in general not do so, is it against the jedi way in some way?

 

I mean he literally showed Yoda a vision in the clone wars of all the Jedi getting killed by clones Yoda knew it was to late by then to save the Jedi and hope would come from an unexpected place

 

Well technically it wasn't too late to save the Jedi though. Most of the Jedi died so quickly during order 66 because they didn't expect it. Yoda could have just sent them to some safe place or something. Also if Yoda knew who Sidious was (he wasn't shown in the cave, but if Qui-Gon could have told him), he could have just sent a Jedi squad to arrest Palpatine. Anakin wouldn't join the dark side (as he wouldn't have had visions of Padme's death yet), and hence Palpatine would not have been saved.

Btw in that scene where he is shown the Jedi fighting the clones, that never happens in ROTS, whereas the other ones do. Where is that scene from?

 

I think that just because Qui-Gon was dead doesn't mean he could automatically predict the future, which is not fixed and always in motion anyway, as Yoda told us. Besides, Sidious didn't give Order 66 until after he had defeated Windu and secured Anakin's loyalty. By that time any warning would have come too late. The Jedi were already spread out on different planets. Anakin's reaction itself must have been hard to predict, as even he himself was not sure how to act until the very last moment. Attacking Mace was a spontaneous decision, not planned. Had Anakin not helped him Sidious very likely would have lost, either dead or arrested, so no Order 66, no Empire.

 

First, lets preface this by remembering how Obi-Wan told Luke on Dagobah that he cannot interfere and aid Luke in his doings.

The Force allows living beings their own autonomy to define their own fate. To use a rough example, it's kind of like how wildlife filmographers do not intervene when a lion is hunting an antelope. Nature must be allowed to take its course.

It was not Qui-Gon's place to spell everything out for Yoda. Even when Yoda asked him who the Sith Lord was, he informed Yoda that he can only guide him to the place where the answers will be revealed to him.

So to answer your last question Alpha, Obi-Wan & Yoda did warn Luke about many things. About the consequences his actions would bring. But they did not tell him anything he couldn't find out on his own and they could not intervene on his behalf.

As mentioned already, by the time of the war the Sith had grown too powerful. Qui-Goin stated that there can be many outcomes, but that dark times were indeed ahead. The most conducive course of action at that point was in looking for and seizing opportunities for hope.

Qui-Gon did not emphasize any sort of direct action against the Sith. Rather, his focus was merely on training Yoda to preserve his life force after death so that he could still commune with the living.

So, even through his vision on Dagobah; knowing of Sidious and seeing a conflict between the Jedi and the Clones, Yoda did what he could, but in the end all there really was left to do was what Qui-Gon had said.

 

Ascended Jedi spirits aren't omniscient.

 

By the end of the Clone Wars, it's pretty clear that they know what's gonna happen, I think they almost accept there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

First I would say I have always assumed there was an unwritten rule for force ghosts that they don't get too involved. They can offer general advice, but can never say for a fact what will or won't happen as a result of the actions people take. Quigon told Yoda that the war was destroying the Jedi, but he never stated that it would cumulate in Order 66 or that the Chancellor was a Sith Lord. As Obi-Wan later advised Luke to be patient and complete his training, but he never informed Luke he would lose his hand or be informed about his true parentage.

Second, I would point out that Palpatines entire plan was to put the Jedi in an impossible position. Many have argued that the Jedi should have stayed out of the war, but I contend that doing so would have just made it easier for Palpatine to demonize them to the public. Why are the protectors of peace and justice turning their back on the Republic that has sponsored them? Why let millions die when they could use their powers to end the conflict much sooner? The propaganda lines write themselves.
And what if they did know? Could they have withdrawn from the republic? Let Sidious take over the Galaxy? Join the confederacy, which I point out is led by Sidious's apprentice? Start a faction of their own dedicated to wiping out both sides? The dark lord controlled everyone, he went out of his way to craft an image of the kindly old chancellor who loved democracy. It wouldn't have been hard to inflame emotions and convince people that they were committing treason, and far more convincingly than in the current timeline. At best they could attempt to arrest Palpatine, as they did, and even that carried many risks as revealed in ROTS. Bring enough Jedi and Maybe they could subdue him, but he likely would have had a backup plan as well. More guards, an escape route, or something. In the end he would once again accuse the Jedi of treason, and we're right back where we started.

 

They aren't omniscient, but according to canon they could see through time.

That's what i meant. Anakin's decision was a spontaneous one which i feel was made on the basis of lots of factors. Anakin was denied the rank of master. Padme was dying and Sidious said the dark side could save her. His hatred for the jedi had grown a lot in ROTS. And when he saw Mace about to kill Sidious, he finally gave into the dark side. What i was trying to say was had the jedi acted earlier, they could have confronted Sidious before he had won Anakin's side. Hence Sidious would have been arrested or killed. Unless like ConservativeJedi321 said, he had other backup plans, which i guess he probably did.

There probably is some kind of unexplained rule that stops force ghosts interfering with the living too much. Also i guess you're right. Palpatine controlled the two biggest armies in the galaxy. Even if the jedi tried to catch him earlier, he could have used order 66 and the clones would wipe out the jedi. Now he has clones and droids hunting any remaining jedi. The jedi aren't that strong. Also, was Anakin really crucial to the downfall of the jedi? I guess now i think about it Anakin was more of an added bonus rather than something he really needed.

 

The same reason ObiWan and Yoda didnt warn Luke about Palpatine using Force Lightning...

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I'm not familiar with all of the non-saga materials, but at any rate I don't give all of them credence. It's my approach. Based on Obi-Wan's scene with Luke in Return of the Jedi, he seems not to know that Luke will successfully redeem his father or even that this is possible. He still has his own opinions and doesn't know everything. This stood out to me as a kid, because at that age I assumed that one would have access to all knowledge in the afterlife. But in Star Wars we see the ascended Jedi spirits not knowing what will happen and referring to doubts, or even seemingly having the wrong opinions.

 

I would lump that in with the myriad of examples of “why wasn’t Force power X used in scene Y?”

Vader used technology to interrogate Leia and was lied to, while Kylo could look straight into Poe and Rey’s minds.

Obi-Wan can sit on a tree stump and Yoda can destroy things from beyond the grave, yet Obi-Wan insists he can’t interfere, etc.

The saga is riddled with holes like that that require a lot of hoops to jump through to explain. And I think it gets worse the more the story gets expanded upon.

I don’t know that there’s a good explanation as to why the dead don’t offer more help beyond pep talks.

The easiest hand wave to this issue would just be to say that always in motion is the future, and perhaps there’s a danger in revealing aspects about the future because it might prevent the future.

Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan not to concern himself with the future at the expense of the moment.


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I don't understand the trend of asking why something that was written decades after a film didn't happen in that film? Especially now when content is being written by different writers with no apparent need to be familiar with or respect earlier content.

Obi Wan sitting on the log or brushing the tree branches was never interpreted by me to mean that years later Yoda would be able to use lightning to destroy a tree. I honestly don't think Lucas caught that small brush or intended for it to mean that a force ghost could affect the physical world.

Vader not freezing people in place like Kylo did to Rey in TFA? Doesn't mean Vader didn't have that power, it just means technology advances have allowed for special effects to create the visual.

 

Well Qui Gon read the prophecy right, and understanded the sacrifice the Jedi Order would have to make. He could of at least told them that

 

Why didn't Obi-Wan's ghost-steal the WWII plans and gave them to Luke? That would've saved lots of Bothan's lives. Why didn't tell he tell Luke that it was a trap? Why didn't Obi-Wan give Luke a more up-to-date shield code? Why didn't he tell Luke about the bunker's back door? Or about the Ewoks for that matter? And why didn't he assist in the search for Leia?

Or even earlier, why didn't Force Ghost Obi-Wan not help with getting Han out of Jabba's palace? It seems to me it would've been way easier if he just appeared in the middle of the room when everyone's asleep, Force-floated frozen Han out of the palace, and defrosted him at a safe distance.

And while Obi-Wan said that he "can't interfere" when Luke decided to rescue Han and Leia, he could at least have tried to be a distraction. I mean, why didn't Obi-Wan just stand by the side, without interfering, annoyingly singing "Ani, are you OK, are you OK, Ani"? This would have distracted Vader and given Luke the advantage.

And why didn't Force ghost Yoda just blow up the DSII? He could've appeared next to the main reactor, summoned some lightning with his stick, and get it done with, easily. Or he could have Force-directed one of the DSII's weapons directly at the main reactor. Or even during the battle Force-direct one of the lasers at the reactor. All of those possibilities, so why didn't he?

Anyway, I think I've made my point.

 

the jedi were too powerful, they had tens of thousands of jedi, and towards the end of the clone wars the sepratists had lost grievous and count dooku which are huge leaders. palpatine himself would not be able to do it alone. and qui gonn jinn always had wanted balance in the force. qui gonn knew anakin had dark within him and people speculate that qui gonn wanted anakin to turn to the dark side for balance.

 

Just going off on a tangent about the last part. They still could’ve done that in 1977. Have Prowse hold his hand up into a claw at the other actor, who then freezes their own muscles and make strained facial expressions. Use a harness to pull them up if needed. I mean, just a few decades earlier Reeves starred in a film/TV series that had him flying around in the air. So it would’ve been possible to have Vader freeze/lift someone in the air with the Force, using the tech of the time. Cables, wires, harnesses — a friend of directors since time immemorial.

That is all. We may resume normal course.

 

Canon sources say that Qui-Gon found Earth through the force and was too busy bumping 3 6 in his Chevy.

 

Qui-Gon was not omnipresenf. Force Ghosts tend to haunt locations and persons, usually those people thwey know. It is likely Jinn knew nothing of Order 66 and Palpatine being a Sith Lord.

 

If Yoda, the Grandmaster, didn’t know, no way Qui-Gon did.