Saga Why do people hate the prequels?

Doesn't a dislike of anything involve unfulfilled expectations? There's nothing wrong with that, and I don't think that we PT fans should be telling those who don't like the PT, "Well, maybe you shouldn't have expected X and Y. Maybe you should have gone into it with different/no expectations like we did." But there's nothing wrong with expecting X and Y, and it makes sense that disliking the prequels would involve their not meeting one's expectations.

Hope that makes sense. I may not have had enough coffee today.

 

On a semantic level, perhaps.

But consider this - two people go in with the same expectation: "I expect to enjoy this movie." One finds their expectation fulfilled, the other does not. The dislike is not a matter of unfulfilled expectation, but of the natural differences between what people find enjoyable.

In fact, many of my favorite bits of the PT and TCW are pieces entirely unlike anything I was expecting content-wise, but which were nevertheless executed wonderfully. Qui-Gon Jinn, "War!", the melodramatic Snidely Whiplash-ness of General Grievous.

 

I don't hate them, but I know my buddy hates the 1st one because of Jar Jar.

 

I firmly believe that dislike of the Prequels comes from a refusal or inabilty to put them in their proper order.

Its not just that people just love the originals better they, refuse to try to watch the movies in the new order. They continue to watch the Prequels with the Originals in mind. I admit, they don't work that well in light of the originals.

However, if you watch them with a genuine open mind as if they are the beginning of everything then you will see they work much better. Not only that, but it then give the originals a lot of added depth that they were somewhat lacking in anyway.

example: We all know Obi-Wan dissappeared when he is killed by Vader. When Qui-Gon is stabbed, he does not dissappear. It automatically draws attention to that fact because it is different than we expect. Why should it be. If watched in order, it would be the first time we have seen a Jedi die, and he dies in a manner that seems logical. It should be no big deal.

Then it ROTS when we find out that Yoda has been talking to QGJin people don't feel like it answered the question properly. But if you were watching it in order, there would be no question to answer. you'd never have wondered about any of that. So when Yoda says that it functions as a nice teaser, leading you to wonder what we will find out about it in Episode IV. Then we see Obi-Wan dissappear and that now has added cool factor because we knew something was up.


But people refuse to see it the way Lucas designed it. Either out of inability or sheer pigheadedness.

-
T

 

Nah. If I ignore the OT and view the PT as the first, second, and third movies in a series they actually come off much worse.

Take away my OT-fueled nostalgic fondness for Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda, and the extent to which I care for those characters in TPM and AotC drops from "not much" to zero.

If TPM and AotC had been their own thing and there wasn't yet an OT in the equation, I wouldn't have even bothered continuing on with RotS - I might not even have bothered with AotC after seeing TPM.

I've tried sitting through the 1-6 order, but the fact is I just don't find enough worthwhile in the PT films to sit through them all over again. Their connection to the OT is the only thing that keeps them out of the "saw it once and have no desire to see it again except to play MST3k" category with films like Power Rangers, Super Mario Bros, and Batman and Robin.

 

"Proper order"?

You mean, the order that Lucas actually made the movies in , i.e. OT 4-5-6, then 1-2-3????

As far as him 'intending' for people to watch the movies in "proper" 1-6 order, look at the allusions to the OT that are in the PT. Those things tell me that Lucas was catering those movies to those who had already seen the old ones.

 

Lifelong fan of the Classic Trilogy.

In 1999; when I walked out the theater after my first TPM viewing, I was satisfied.
Visually, the movie was as breathtaking to my mature sight as the OT was to my child-eyes. Initial excitement aside, the story became a little tough to swallow: Maul's death made no sense because Anakin wasn't even close to being turnable and Naboo's plight didn't really resonate with me at all. Maybe it was Jar Jar. Seriously though, all the talk of taxes and trade routes sounded like GFFA_CNN, and since I've never watched a minute of that crap in real-life, I became more bored with the story with each replay. I waited five years before watching it again, and now it's my second fav of the PT, 4th overall.

In 2002, I walked out of the theater and turned to my bro... we almost said at the same time: "Man did that stink!". Out of all six films, AOTC still feels the least like Star Wars... almost like we could skip it and not really miss anything. And in truth, I have. I've watched TPM and then skipped right to ROTS and it was pretty smooth... When I left TPM that time, Anakin was still a boy and then after the 3rd movies crawl... we flash-forward to Jedi Knight, Anakin! Surprise! There is another Sith Lord and Anakin wastes him! Then! OMgoodness, he MARRIED PADME!!! Awesome. For anyone that hates AOTC, you should try it... As it is, this film is number six on my list, but I'll never watch it again. I like my I to III skip WAY too much at this point.

In 2005, I was more spoiled than I should have been. I got inside with a few spoiler-providers here and knew most of the original draft/script/novel and film. I was fortunate enough to be able to spoil the 3SA with Anakin and Mace's novel dialog about explaining the difference between killing Dooku and Palpatine. That's how "in" I was... Then came the revised turn. I hated it. But aside from that, I absolutely loved ROTS. ESB =/= ROTS in my eyes, even with the contrived, crybaby turn. The novel makes that movie better, because the novel-turn is closer to the original-turn than the revised film. But I'm digressing here...

In summation, I love the PT because it is MORE Star Wars, but I'm disappointed that Lucas didn't do a better job. Its not like he didn't have the time to have it nailed down before he started. I know that GL sucks as a writer; he's admits to hating it, but I really believe that the main difference between the OT's overall awesomeness and the PT's stunning, but somewhat hollow-beauty is because Marcia Griffin Lucas was no longer involved. The PT clearly lacked her warm touch...

 

People who saw them in release order (especially OT fans) clearly have a harder time getting into Episodes I-III. Even I had to get used to the intended sequence of 1-6.
Yes, they are designed to be watched 1-6. The sequels of Back to the Future reference details from the original movie. But upon repeated viewings, the original Back to the Future seem to contain jokes that foreshadow the sequels. The same sort of thing happens when one watches the Star Wars movies 1-6. At first one may even miss lines like "Youre going to be the death of me" but on repeated viewings, its foreshadowing. Of course we OT fans thought of it as a joke, but it obviously serves a dual purpose.
Personally, I don't think its hard to identify with Anakin, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, or Shmi when viewing Episode I on its own. Especially Qui-Gon and Shmi. So nostalgia it seems to me at least actually hinders one's enjoyment of the PT, rather than the other way around.

 

Hinders YOUR enjoyment, you mean.

For some of us, nostalgia is the only way to find almost any enjoyment at all in the films (particularly AotC).

 

I think for me nostalgia for the OT made we want to work harder to like the PT if anything.

 

Exactly.
The nostalgia is what allows us old-schoolers laugh at Kenobi's intended humor and appreciate the gravity of its hidden truth...

Those kind of lines also serve to remind us; that for some people, it's pretty easy to arrange a kiss with a Wookiee. One thing I did appreciate about AOTC, there weren't any Ewoks in the bar. And deathsticks? I mean, they sound more like dynamite than anything else... but that was funny. Nostalgia is what made me think Luke's dad was actually somewhat cool when he floated the fruit and then cringe when I listened to the fireplace scene. At the end of the day, Marcia's deft eye and subtle touch are what separates the OT from the Prequels.

 

And if you don't like a certain PT scene, nostalgia makes it easier to MST it.

"The thought of being with you...I can't breathe."

"That's because you don't have your mask on."

 

Priceless....

 

(Cross-post from PT because I think it's relevant here)

My issue is that Maul is such a non-entity as a character. We get that perfunctory scene on Coruscant, but otherwise he's no more of a character than is the Death Star.

And while there's nothing wrong with just watching actors/stuntmen run around fighting each other, until TPM lightsaber duels were always something MORE than just that. They were dramatic scenes between characters we were invested in, even if we still ultimately hoped the good guy would beat the bad guy.

That's also the larger problem with the TPM finale in general - there aren't really any character arcs at play.

SW ends with Luke finding faith in the Force and Han giving in to his better angels.
TESB's finale has too much character development going on to list it all.
RotJ has Luke freeing his father from the dark side.

Where is that character development in the last act of TPM?

 

I suppose there is Obi-Wan's arc to consider. He starts as a timid Padawan learner, and by the end he's back-talking to Yoda of all people!

 

aside from the order of watching it issue. There is one major issue that I believe does hurt the prequels.

There is, imo, not enough material in TPM for a full movie and too much in AOTC. The problem for Lucas was does he make the TPM with an introduction to the Jedi and the Meeting of Anakin, and then about an hour or so into the movie do a "Ten Years Later" bit?

Frankly that was what it needed to me. But that would have felt pretty off in terms of the rest of the saga. My guess is they considered it, but ultimately decided against it.

I like both of those films fine. But TPM feels like they are all the time stretching out the scenes. And AOTC suffers, because it feels so functional all the time, like its just non-stop exposition.

 

"Why do people hate the prequels?"
The dialogue is badly written.
There's bad acting.
Hayden is a terrible actor.
There's bad editing.
There's bad directing.
There's hit and miss with the special effects.

Everyone who might say that I'm way to critical of the prequel trilogy needs to know I'm in love the Clone Wars TV show. It's directed well, told well, edited well, directed well. I'm not one of those fans who dislike the PT or it's universe because it's not the OT. I love the prequel universe, it's just that George didn't do a good job making the PT movies. I love all three of his directorial gigs prior to the Prequels, the man could direct! I'm completely open for any new Star Wars product, they just have to be done well (Like the Clone Wars TV show). I just don't see the PT as well made movies. the Prequels have a good story, but for me they are a mess because of everything I've listed above.

George takes all the criticism of the the PT and puts it all in one big basket, that the fans don't like the new films because they are not the OT. That it has nothing to do with the criticism of his poor film making on the films. Talk about denial!

 

Not to belittle the point, but half of your list are things that Marcia could worked her magic with.

 

Exactly! People don't like the PT because they simply don't think they were well made movies.Much like the thousands of other movies people haven't liked in there lifetime.It has very little if anything to do with the bizarre and silly excuses fans are always coming up with for people not liking GL's movies.

 

I grew up with the OT (was born in 77) and went through the dark times from 85-90 when there was no Star Wars AT ALL. Then had the pleasure of seeing Star Wars brought back, first with the Zhan trilogy, then with the VHS re-releases of the OT, then with the Special Edition and finally with the Prequels.

And I have to say I'm one of those boring Star Wars fans that likes all of the movies.

Of course I have my personal favourites (ESB and ROTS tied, then ANH and AOTC with ROTJ and TPM coming in last) But I can appreciate them all on their own terms and like them for differant things. I love the OT's simplicity and honesty and humour. Its humanity and its nostalgia.

Yet I also love the PT for its complexity and darkness. For its beauty and its tragedy. These are also nostalgic films now, not the youthful nostalgia of the OT, but the nostalgia of being a young man in his prime when these movies came out and the times I shared with all my friends at the JC.

So thats it. I'm pretty boring and I enjoy all of them.

 

Well, I love everything Star Wars, and love each SW film equally. I don't find anything wrong with any of the six films.

In the end, it's all opinion. Who cares if people say the PT sucks. It's THERE opinion. Not fact. Like the OT being the best is opinion, not fact. When it comes to movies, it is nothing but general opinion. Some people like certain stuff, and hate other things. That's why I think film critics are pointless. It's only THEIR view on the movie, not the whole. I hate when people judge a film just by what a critic says. Just because a critic pans a film, doesn't mean you'll hate it, even if you've agreed with them numerous times.

So, it's all a matter of opinion in which "trilogy" is better. But, ALSO in the end (wow, been saying that a lot), there are no trilogies, just one saga, as GL states. But I do understand people say PT and OT to split the films up easily. And this is just my opinion.

 

Yet they continue to be sold as trilogies...

 

Trilogies labeled as I-II-III and IV-V-VI...

 

And yet the new Blu-ray release is having them as a single boxset, further putting it as a saga. And I believe that was only the case with the two DVD boxsets released 2 years ago. I think they did that for fans who only had maybe half the saga, or them "OT only" fans. It's about time they release it as a single set. But, GL has stated he doesn't see it as two trilogies, rather one saga.

 

And yet I already have, and only need, the OT in hi-def, regardless of what Lucas says. //shrug