main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

PT Why do so many people hate that Anakin was a kid in Episode I?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    If anakin would have been the same actor in all three films then we the audience would have been more sympathetic to his fall from grace because we would have been invested in the character more.

    The fact that In Episode 2 the audience had to basically start over and get reacquainted with the character again, lost that emotional connection.

    Having anakin the same age as padme in episode 1 would have made their chemistry more believable throughout all three episodes.

    I felt more connected to padme because Natalie Portman was consistent in all three films and we the audience saw her character grow.

    It’s not Hayden’s fault, we just didn’t have more time to connect with him emotionally.

    He was great in episode 3. I would have liked if he was cast in episode 1. It would have been awesome seeing Hayden progress till his downfall in episode 3.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    Force Smuggler and Vic and Bob like this.
  2. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    We're invested because it's the same character. This is how movies work. They aren't real. Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro aren't actually the same person.
     
  3. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    It’s not quite the same since anakin was spread over three film with his love interest padme across the three films and that dynamic would have been better served with the same actor across three films.

    Godfather 2 didn’t have the Vito character in all three films. I own a copy of all three godfather films in chronological order and it doesn’t work as a trilogy in that order because you lose the Brando effect.

    It’s not the same comparison at all since Brando’s performance was outstanding and left a mark in that film.

    The Godfather series was the story of michaels fall from grace and the parallels with his father vito.

    Would The Godfather have worked if al Pacino was a young boy in the first godfather and then with Al in part 2 and 3? Sorry not the same impact.

    It’s michaels character that the constant in All three films and not Brando.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  4. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Another point that Lucas made in his own way is exactly the age difference between Anakin and Padme: the usual one is when the male is a little older and let's say it more rational when the female is younger and more emotional and here is vice versa and I like that. But it has nothing to do with Anakin being a kid in Ep.1: he would always be younger than her no matter how old is he at the moment.
     
    Mark Pierre and Sith Lord 2015 like this.
  5. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    I'm sorry, but none of your arguments amount to anything more than "I personally didn't like it."

    Having Anakin played by the same actor across all three films simply wouldn't have worked because an essential part of the story would have been lost; namely, Anakin's early childhood separation from his mother and the effect that had on his emotional development.

    I had absolutely no trouble buying Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen as the same character at different ages, any more than I had a problem buying Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness as the same character at different ages. As I've said before, movies aren't real. Two different actors can play the same character if such a thing is called for by circumstances.

    No, The Godfather would not have worked as it does if Al Pacino was a young boy in the first film and an adult in the two sequels, because that obviously would have been a completely different story which we have no possible way of evaluating one way or the other. This hypothetical is worse than useless. It can tell us nothing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  6. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    My point is that it would have been more effective had it been the same actor for the three films. Anakin as a teenager would have still served the story. In my opinion he didn’t have to be a 9 year old boy.

    I respectfully disagree with your point. I am no stranger to movies either, as you missed my point.

    We agree to disagree which is fine and I am good with it.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  7. K-2S0

    K-2S0 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    I have often wondered what it would have been like to be 8 when the phantom menace came out.
     
  8. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I would've much rather have an Anakin that ages in reverse during the PT. So we get senile old man Anakin in TPM, baby Anakin in AOTC, and Nonakin in ROTS. Everyone is driven insane by this, causing Padme to assume the role of Darth Vader for the OT.
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    That was pretty much the point Lucas made.

    "...some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad. Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he really gets angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as, "You tried to kill me so now I'm going to try and kill you." They didn't seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn't have much to do with Darth Vader; he's a pawn in the whole scheme....

    So I had to ask myself, what was I trying to say and didn't I say it? Did it just get missed or it is it not there? I had to look at it very hard. I had to ask myself, is this how the audience is going to react? Fortunately, Steven confirmed that most of everything was working. So I may lose a certain demographic - maybe, maybe not. But I had to make a decision, and I decided that I'm not going to alter the film to make it more commercial or marketable. I have to be true to my vision, which is 30 years old, but I have to be true to it."

    --George Lucas, The Making of ROTS, page 188.


    "If I'd taken the prequel trilogy to a marketing company, Episode I would've started here [III] and Episodes II and III would've been about Darth Vader killing people. But in the end, I wouldn't be able to write movies like that."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.


    No, because Lucas would have to change his story and that wasn't going to work for him. Lucas had already decided by the start of the 90's, that Anakin was a young boy and that the cause of his turn was his separation from his mother at a young age. He has to be at a very young age in order for the story to work the way that he envisioned it. It wouldn't work as well with Anakin being 19-32. When you watch "The Godfather Saga" where the story is told in chronological order, you still get the same Vito Corolone because you start with him as a boy, then as a man and then as the older man. Brando was a good actor, yes. But the story still works seeing Vito's progression and then his story being handed off to Michael. The same is true with just the PT and OT alone. When you set out to tell a story that spans many long years, you have to decide on the characters ages and the progression of said characters with the actors portraying them. The PT and Coppola's films are no different in that regard.
     
  10. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    In The Godfather saga, little vito andolini is not shown very much.

    The real translation from “good” to “bad” is from Di Nero vito. We don’t have a full movie of little vito andolini. Would godfather have really worked with a full movie about little vito?

    What I was getting at with my point was that it may have been better to cast the same actor for anikin in all three films close to padme’s age or between the ages of 12 to 16.

    I don’t disagree with Lucas’ story points either or the characters motives. But a child can be still separated from his mom at 12 or 13 and still be traumatic. My debate is anakin NOT being the same actor.

    For me having the same actor for the main character of the trilogy go from good to bad would have been better served by an actor I would invest in as a viewer.

    If Hayden was cast in episode 1 let’s say, then as a viewer I can see the chemistry develop between
    Natalie Portman and Hayden.

    Would a different Harry Potter actor have worked in the series?? And James Bond doesn’t count lol.

    Again, my argument is have the same actor across all three films so his downfall has more impact because we the audience are supposed to love the charting episode 1, see his struggles in episode 2 and the downfall in episode 3. For me, jake Lloyd was forgettable. The actor and age of the character was too young or else cast Jake in all three films like Natalie Portman.

    I like the PT and it’s story.

    Also, the original Superman worked in the late 70s because we still got to see Christopher Reeves for more than half the film.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  11. Yodahasgreenfeet

    Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    AOTC makes it more creepy, off than TPM did.

    "I MISSED YOU SOOO MUCH"
    "I WANT YOU"
    "IM HURTING"
    "I OBSESSED OVER YOU, THOUGHT OF YOU EVERY DAY"

    I mean, he was like 9, holy crap. He showed no sign of such a powerful attraction in the TPM...It almost comes out of no where. He complimented her, and smirks at her once or twice but WOW...

    AOTC has some of the creepiest, awkward romance scenes I've ever seen. Not to mention, how do you just brush something like this off and how does this dialogue even make sense?

    I killed them all, the WOMEN, CHILDREN too... I HATE THEM !!!

    Padame " To be angry is to be human...."

    Ummm....

    Chancellor Palpatine: It is only natural. He cut off your arm, and you wanted revenge. It wasn't the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother and the Sand People?


    So basically she encourages his turn to the dark side as well and she's perfectly ok with acts of revenge and violence against women and children?
     
  12. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    That’s why he was too young in episode 1. It would have served the story better had he been around the same age as Padme.

    But in episode 2, we as the audience were forced the love between them rather than feeding us the “kernel”/“chemistry” of their attraction in episode 1.

    Seeing that in episode 1 would have made them falling in love more believable and hence Anikins Possessive love more believable in Episode 3.

    But what we got was a 10 year summary during the elevator scene in episode 2 basically telling the audience that he is madly infatuated with her. Sorry that’s cheating.

    In titanic, in one movie the audience felt both Leonardo and Kate’s passion for each other.

    George had three films to do that, to make anakins downfall more believable and heartfelt because of Anikins greedy and possessive love.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    Yodahasgreenfeet likes this.
  13. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Please. Screaming with capital letters does not change the fact that some of these are never said in the movie at all, especially hurting and obsessed. Yes, Anakin is suffering for many reasons for example that he is not allowed to have such kind of of feelings but love is not always a pleasure. Like in Lancelot- Guinevere story where there are similar kind of suffering and where the knight of the lake also thought almost everyday on his queen but strange, this is called deep love, not possession. Yes, PT and the whole saga makes the distinction between both things very clear but here in AOTC the situation is simpler. Apart from the fact that "I think for her every day" could be more figurative at could be like "I though about her very often" Anakin thought about Padme as a dream: he said that to her almost directly in the refugees' ship. She should deal with the fact that he is not the little boy of Tattoine (well in some ways he still is) and he should confirm the opposite: did she changed or she is the dream that he remembers. Because if she is not he will be relieved as the dream is just a dream and the real person is not the same but there is no relieve as she is the same and he is doomed to suffer all these feelings. Yes he said this to her in the fireplace scene.
     
    Mark Pierre likes this.
  14. Yodahasgreenfeet

    Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    If you are suffering as much as I am, please tell me...

    Dude, it's all the same thing. His actions are obsessive, possessive.... suffering is hurting...

    I mean, read in between the lines, it all means the same thing. At least it allows for such an interpretation.

    Deep love? From what? There weren't any adult romances in TPM or moments for that, he was 9 years old! Nothing in TPM would lead to such a longing, yearning, deep love. They hardly knew each other...what was he thinking about for 15 years? That time they talked about space being cold, that time he called her an angel?

    The whole thing is unbelievable. We all have opinions , but to me the writing in AOTC and ROTS is awful, rushed, poorly crafted in comparison to TPM which I think is the superior film in the PT. Though, each to their own...

    Their romance is one of a few things that I feel ruins the two sequels to TPM. It's not believable, and it's rushed and poorly developed. It's awkward and has uncomfortable tension... The whole thing is awkward and poorly crafted in my opinion.

    That fire place scene is awful, she's about to pop out of her dress and he's all foaming at the mouth with a blood vessel popping out of his head, voice is all shaky and he's giving her eyes... the whole thing is horrifically awkward and uncomfortably tense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  15. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    This is where the power of editing comes in. Like Marcia Lucas fixing episode 4 back in the day because George’s edit wasn’t good and pretty much saved Star Wars.

    “GEORGE Lucas may have been the brains behind Star Wars, but it was his ex-wife Marcia Lucas who gave the film its heart.

    Today, she has largely been erased from the history books.”

    Same for the episode 2. If you ever seen The Phantom Editors cut of episode 2 (Star Wars Attack of the Phantom), he added the deleted scene when they meet the parents and edited their love story so that it way better than what Lucas put out. The fireplace scene was removed.

    It’s a far superior version that what George put out. And sadly it’s George lucas’ footage.

    All three films weren’t edited correctly amongst other things.






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    Yodahasgreenfeet likes this.
  16. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Are you at all familiar with, oh, I don't know, the Western canon in general? Romeo and Juliet were teenagers who fell in love at first sight and died four days later. It's the most epic love story in history. This isn't real life. It's a literary romance. Stop analyzing it like you're Dr. Phil. Your affected incredulity at the tendency of fiction to portray the human experience in elliptical form doesn't make you a more sophisticated connoisseur of art.

    Luke got to know Obi-Wan Kenobi for, what, like a day or two? Yet when he dies it's like he lost a father. And yet, at the same time, he mourns for like two seconds and then gets on with things, because it's a movie and it's supposed to be fast-paced and fun. This, too, is an unrealistic depiction of the way actual humans tends to form relationships and deal with loss, regardless of whatever ad hoc justifications you can manage to carve out for this particular example, which I am almost certain you are about to bless us with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  17. Yodahasgreenfeet

    Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Time to get out my dictionary...
    I know how to think and express myself on my own. I don't need you tell me how to watch movies and how I should discuss them...thanks...

    For a scene to work, it has to feel convincing...I have to want to believe in it... I enjoyed ANH...because in my opinion it's very well directed and written. There aren't any scenes that I don't believe in, or that I am unable to suspend my disbelief for....

    Oh how condescending of you, that I just might give my opinion on a movie scene... and "bless" you with my opinion, so that you can use your big words again and talk down to me and lecture me about the art of film watching... I took film classes in college, I studied cinematic history myself and the art of film making... I don't remember any mention of you being an authority on the matter, maybe I missed a chapter...

    Yeah, their relationship was different actually, given the context. Obi Wan was a much needed mentor for Luke. Luke had grown close to him in a short amount of time because he was new direction for Luke. He gave Luke's life new purpose and meaning, as he had nothing left... Luke couldn't learn the ways of the force alone...Also Obi Wan personally knew Luke's father and more than that, they were good friends... Luke couldn't really talk to any one else about his father as no one else knew him...

    There are many reasons why the two relationships are different...

    The other is about a 9 old year old boy who knew a nearly grown 15 year old girl for about 4 days... and they had very minimal conversation, and never so much even developed what could be seen as a real meaningful connection/ relationship of any kind on screen...

    I'm sure to hear soon how my interpretation isn't right, because I don't understand the art of film and story telling... but the two are different... It's a discussion board, I didn't really come here to learn from you how to express myself where the art of story telling is concerned...

    I think that I can handle expressing myself in my own way. Thanks...

    I'm pretty sure that Romeo and Juliet isn't a prerequisite for watching Star Wars Attack of the Clones and discussing it, by the way... I'd wager that there are fans here who haven't read Romeo and Juliet and still have opinions about Attack of The Clones... I'd even bet that they have had no academic study of the art of literature as well, and yet they discuss the film... (Just a hunch...)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    X Wing likes this.
  18. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC Manager star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Hey guys. We're talking about Anakin in Episode I in this thread.

    Let's stay there, plz.

    @Seagoat @cubman987
     
    Yodahasgreenfeet likes this.
  19. Yodahasgreenfeet

    Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I try, Master. :D

    I'll try to avoid going off topic myself, seriously though...
     
    heels1785 likes this.
  20. X Wing

    X Wing Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Exactly , and that’s why consistency matters. Had anakin been around the same age as Padme and YES I will say it again...the same actor! The connection and chemistry would have started there because Lucas would have to play the scenes differently. Even if Anikin was 13..... being separated from his mom would still be traumatic!




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Yodahasgreenfeet likes this.
  21. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    While I'm not native English speaker even I know that I'm suffering is something different that I'm hurting. If you don't know well I cannot see how the conversation should continue. And again no, thinking much about something or someone is not necessarily obsession. If you think so, then the whole motherhood should be defined as obsession, i.e. unnatural. So it's your interpretation but you are trying to present it as ultimate truth.
    Back to topic. No, Padme being at same age does not lead to better chemistry but to a full cliche, i.e. something comfortable to watch. And dull and with no risk. I'm glad Lucas took all these risks in PT.
     
    Mark Pierre and KyleKartan like this.
  22. Frisco

    Frisco Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    [​IMG]
    I feel that, had The Phantom Menace skipped ten years after the pod races, then,
    having Anakin appear in the film as a small boy would have been a non-issue.
    But, as things were, the boy lingered in the film and -- quite literally -- found himself
    standing around and, generally, getting underfoot. All the while, George Lucas is
    trying to build some kind of odd attraction between a child & The Queen of the Galaxy.
    What started out as interesting and something to be curious about, became ... awkward ...

    [​IMG]
    "... are you an angel?"

    To quote a famous droid: "oh, dear." For some, all of this had, indeed, caused undo "hate" for the boy.
    The worst of it being that it all seems to have been completely avoidable, with just another draft, or two.
     
    X Wing likes this.
  23. AshiusX

    AshiusX Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    I rewatched episode 1 a few days ago. I noticed Luke is whinier in episode 4 than kid Anakin.
     
    Visivious Drakarn likes this.
  24. Vic and Bob

    Vic and Bob Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2018
    @X Wing Exactly! 100% agree. Fans can debate about acting and directing to the end of time, trying to delve in to the depths of GL's mind and analyse every nuance in every detail of why a fictional character does what they do. But, it comes down to the simple disconnect that audiences felt towards Hayden in AOTC... possibly fueling the exagerated hostility his performance and his character recieved.
    I believe that if he was cast in TPM as an older Anakin, that extra three years would have paid off, because he's so much better in ROTS...
     
    X Wing likes this.
  25. ForScience

    ForScience Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2019
    People didn't want kiddie Anakin, they wanted good friend joining Obi-Wan on his idealistic crusade Anakin.
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.