PT Why does there seem to be a near-consensus that AOTC is worse than TPM?

Strange . . . I've had an easier time of embracing AOTC than any other Star Wars movie I have ever seen.

 

The dialogue is actually worse than TPM, primarily because of the romance scenes. So so painful.

I actually finally revisited this film on Disney+. I quite like Kamino, Obi-Wan, Jango Fett and the final battle when the Clones arrive. However this film has serious structural problems, along with the aforementioned atrocious dialogue and cringy acting from Hayden & Natalie.

 

No matter what thread you read, you just can't escape prequel, especially AOTC, bashers. If it's so "painful" for you then don't watch it. Which part of "don't watch a movie if you don't like it" don't you understand? I have nothing against CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. But words like "painful", "atrocious", "cringy" etc. disqualify you. You haters are really all the same. Nothing meaningful to say, just the endless repetition of hate phrases. Wow, this forum is getting more boring all the time.

 

Honestly, this thread feels like it devolved as an excuse for TPM and AOTC bashers to debate which film deserves more hate.

 

10 years ago I was definitely in the AOTC bashing camp. I couldn’t actually sit though the film without falling asleep in the middle.

However, the last 5 or 6 years I’ve seriously come to appreciate it. The opening act is very different to anything we’d seen in Star Wars films. It feels really grim, seedy and dark the way we start out with a bombing and a chase around the coruscant underworld.

The Kamino scenes are great (who wasn’t amazed the first time we heard the seismic charges Jango was releasing?!) and the final battle when the clones arrive is epic.

You really just have to relax and enjoy it for what it is. People may not like the love scenes between anakin and padme, but they are necessary for the pay off in ROTS

 

Okay. Actually I've legit only seen AOTC 3 times since it was released in 2002. So I don't actually go out of my way to watch it because I legitimately don't like the movie. This is a thread on why AOTC may be considered worse than TPM. I didn't go in a gush thread and post my complaints so I'm confused what the real problem is here.

If you'd like me to delve further on my issues with AOTC, you could've simply asked and I would've been more than happy to specify rather than you getting so defensive over the film. My post was not an attempt to shut down a conversation.

And for the record, I love Revenge of the Sith so while I have serious problems with TPM and AOTC I'm not a prequel "hater".

 

I speak as a fan of the prequels, even AotC, but the truth is I can't watch it without coming out in hives. And that's a problem as I've seen it at least 50 times, including 5 times at the cinema when it came out.

There a many moments I enjoy, but there is hardly a scene in AotC that I don't think fails on some level - sometimes it's the terrible dialogue, other times the confused performances: it might be that the lighting is off, or the editing is clumsy, or the CGI is distractingly obvious. Usually it's a combination of some of the above. Sometimes it's the uninspired production design (what a derivative bore ground-level Coruscant turned out to be), or the humour falling flat. I really think Lucas was struggling after the critical reception to TPM, and couldn't get going on the screenplay. Another 5 or 6 drafts and maybe we'd have got something closer in quality to subsequent and previous Star Wars films.

On the other hand the almost dialogue-free last 5-10 minutes gives me chills - it really sets up RotS brilliantly and almost makes you forget about the yellow/teal mush that preceded it for 2 hours.

 

I already told you, it would have been acceptable to give some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, no need to "delve" into anything. If you "legitimately" hate the movie, then DON'T WATCH IT, instead of spewing your hatred on the internet. And as I also said, phrases like "atrocious" or "cringy" (typical haters terminology) are NOT constructive but derogatory. At least make an effort and explain what exactly makes the movie (which LOTS of people enjoy by the way) so ***king "atrocious". Nobody gives a rat's ass if YOU or other haters "fell asleep" or "cringed". Those are not valid criticisms and trust me, nobody cares. At least make a reasonable point.

 

Hey I'm telling you right now, you check that attitude of yours. I highly doubt you'd talk like that in person to anyone so don't start treating me with disrespect behind a screen when I replied to you very kindly. There is absolutely no reason for you to throw a tantrum over what I posted especially after I offered to talk about it more constructively if you wanted. My initial post was short because I'm also trying to not to type 3 large blocks of texts criticizing the film which for some people is more of a nuisance.

So what is it gonna be? You really want to waste your emotional energy getting more upset or do you want to talk like two adults? I understand that when you see people pan a film you like, that you want to see more substance in their criticism and I respect that. I thought your initial point was fair but for you to fly off the handle after I replied is unacceptable.

 

Hey, all I asked is some valid reasons why you so passionately dislike the movie, and said that using derogatory words to describe it isn't very convincing or helping a reasonable discussion. It just leads to another PT hate thread where people bash each other. We have enough of those already. We can discuss the movie reasonably any time. It's just that words like "atrocious" and "painful" don't help much.
Me, I really really dislike TFA, but have never said it was crap or cringy or anything like that. Just try to keep the criticisms reasonable without bashing, then this discussion will be fine.

 

Look, I didn't want to attack you personally or anything. It's just a little tiring and annoying when after years and years people still use the same old overused phrases to "criticize" AOTC. It's a matter of opinion, not absolute fact that the movie is objectively "bad". I believe it's not, and it's in my personal top tier of SW movies, together with ROTS and ANH. You don't like it, and that's fine. I do, so let's just leave it at that. If you want reasons why I rate it so high, I'd be glad to give them.
Sorry for the double post. I had to leave my computer and when I wanted to finish it the option to edit had already expired.

 

Thank you for reasonably responding. And like I said, I get it and I agree its an opinion; I don't think how I feel is a fact that must be shared by everyone else. You're also right that in general, things historically get ugly with derogatory criticism and people start ridiculing people who like the film or vice versa. I can assure you that I myself, never felt the need to attack anyone for liking the movies I dislike or in this case AOTC, and also it was not an attempt to get a rise out of anyone. I mean in my initial post, I actually did sprinkle in what I did like about the film to try and signify that I'm not trying to outright hate the movie, but at the same time I can understand how that may come off more patronizing than objective when I'm essentially doing a critique sandwich.

 

I was in my late 20s when I first watched AOTC and thought the romantic scenes were bad. Everybody in the cinema laughed loudly when the music stopped abruptly in the lake scene (maybe the worst music editing choice in a blockbuster ever).

Now, almost two decades later, I actually quite like them. It's two youngsters with the weight of the galaxy on their shoulders, making typical stilted, hammy attempts at bonding. I remember my first relationship wasn't much different, minus the force manipulation of fruit, killing tribes and surfing livestock (I think). It was all clumsy chat and arsing about. They're no different. I even find it quite touching.

 

TPM was the first SW movie in 16 years, and people had high expectations for AOTC to be better.

 

Same here. While I didn't dislike TPM, I wasn't over the moon about it. I took an instant liking to AOTC and it remains one of my favorite SW movies.

 

That's NOT a music editing choice. That's the way the music was composed: a slow and passionate build-up... and a sudden stop (which leads directly to a beautiful variation of the theme, by the way).

The music does exactly the same during the Han-Leia kiss scene in Empire.

 

that music stopping did lead to laughter in the theater. it almost played like a parody. I do like AOTC but some of those scenes are painful to watch.

 

I'd say the contrary is true. People had veeeery high expectations for TPM because it was the first SW movie in 16 years.
The initial reaction when AOTC was released was that the movie was much better than TPM. It's only afterwards that it has shifted.
Basically it went from "AOTC is so much better than TPM", to "well, it's part of the prequels, and the prequels suck anyway" to "actually, it may be the worst of the prequels".
It's funny how public perception of a movie changes through time, to be honest.

 

It's a diabolical decision on Williams' part then. It's terrible. I thought it had been something he'd been asked to do.

 

Is it that bad in Empire as well?
Because I'm fairly certain they decided to emulate that moment with the music.

 

It's a subjective matter. For me, no.

 

I've never ever heard anyone complain about that. Its obvious that this supposed to this way...the music stopping as Anakin and Padme stop kissing...or better Padme breaking the kiss. There isnt anything funny or laughable at maybe then Anakin getting rejected in the middle of them making out...

 

Sure, it shouldn't be funny. I don't disagree. But, to myself and a fair few other people I know, it is a laughably bad moment. I'm not sure we really get to choose what makes us cringe and chuckle. They're instinctive reactions.

 

AOTC has some alright parts--mostly all the ones where it's Ewan McGregor solo--but visually, it's aged far worse than TPM (which, using a better balance of practical effects and more, actually doesn't look half bad). Sure, it was still the early days of big blockbuster CGI, but between it's predecessor and the more honed imagery of ROTS, it seems awkward. It's also easier, IMO, to ignore Jar Jar than it is the romantic plot.

So while AOTC isn't irredeemable to me, I do still put it at the lowest of the prequel totem tree of what I'd actually want to rewatch.

 

I never understood that shift. Then again, I had stopped trying to understand people and simply maintain my own opinions.