PT Why does there seem to be a near-consensus that AOTC is worse than TPM?

I can't stand AOTC, I really can't. But ...

It is not because I think it is a bad movie. It isn't, in fact I think it puts everything that is wrong with and in the galaxy on the screen. The arrogance of people in lead - be it politicians or Jedi. The rift between those we knew before to be good (Jedi) and the normal life. That, IMO is shown perfect with Anakin's absolute flirt disaster and Padmé. The easy acceptance of things, because accepting it is simpler than not to accept it (clones). Invading a planet due to questionable motives.

For me the movie is designed to stand on the bottom list. I don't think it was designed to be a "good", "happy" or "funny" movie but one you should despise if that means you actually think about it. Usually with Star Wars I have a rule for me: Drink whenever you want to throw something on the screen. The drinking game is impossible with this one. AOTC is like Smith from Lost in Space. Designed to get in rage about.

And writing this and thinking about this just showed me, that I should put it a few levels higher or have it change places with that one Star Wars movie that I really can't stand because of the worst emotion at all: boredom. (ANH).

 

You're so funny.

I like AOTC more than TPM. I never understood why either of those films got hate to be honest. It feels that people complained about minor details instead of focusing on the big picture. The good scenes in both of these movies are far more than the bad scenes.

 

AOTC is definitely at the bottom of my list. It’s the big picture stuff that I don’t really like, it’s just a mostly boring film.

The stuff I like are actually little details, like seeing Coruscant, and seeing all the cool looking Jedi at the end, unfortunately they are mostly just background characters and it’s left to comics and books to see more of them, which to be fair many of which I enjoyed.

 

I don't recall ever being bored by it. Far from it - it is in some ways the most absorbing one precisely because the galaxy is not yet consumed by the chaos of the Clone Wars, and the Galactic Civil War that followed. It is the last calm before the storm.
Also, it is like a gigantic chess match where Palpatine outsmarts everyone. He's at his best when he's moving things most stealthily. Watching him engage in full-blown palace intrigue is really mesmerizing.

 

-TPM has a great actor like Liam while AotC has an average actor like Hayden
-Padme and Anakin - ...
-There is no Space Battle in AotC except for Obi-Wan's little scuffle with Jango where Obi-Wan complains about flying
-Puppet Yoda > CGI Yoda
-Duel of the Fates > AotC duel
-Sidious has more screen time in TPM

 

Well I was around when both TPM and AotC were first released and I remember that initially AotC got a better recpetion here.
Even some of those that did not like TPm found it an improvement.
However that did not last and the film dropped a bit in overall estimation.

For me, I found TPM rather un-engaging and overall mediocre.
AotC had higher highs, more Obi-Wan, Dooku, a more interesting plot.
But it also had lower lows, the romance, which ground the movie to a halt for me in addition to not being believable. I found Anakin really grating and I wanted him off the screen. The Jedi coming across as really clueless.
So the good parts were better but the bad were worse.

Looking at the overall reception.
What were some of the common complaints about TPM?
Jar Jar, AotC had much less of him.
Kid Anakin that is too nice and sweet, AotC had an older Anakin, who was more darker, more angry and quite disrespectful.
Pacing, some felt that TPM dragged in places. AotC has more action and fewer slower moments.
Not enough Jedi action, AotC has a big battle with lots of Jedi.

Plus AotC added fan favorite Boba Fett.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

actual war instead of trade negotiations is definitely something AOTC had over TPM

 

As someone who likes lists and rankings a bit too much, I've been following the general trends in fan rankings for years now and the shift towards a lowered opinion on AOTC is pretty clear though not as dramatic as some might paint it. I almost started buying into the hate until I went back and rewatched the prequels and found to my surprise that I enjoyed AOTC the most of the prequels. It had the most fun action sequences, some of the funniest moments, and the single best musical theme in the prequel trilogy (Across the Stars).

Anakin and Padme's scenes with one another weren't that bad when they weren't attempting romance. I liked some of the incites into Anakin's character - his explanation of love and the jedi, him flirting with the idea that a dictator might be a good idea, his line about how life seems so simple when he's fixing machines, etc. Even Obi-Wan felt like a more fleshed out and interesting character in this movie compared to TPM. This was also Padme's best movie.

The number one difference was the acting. Almost everyone in TPM felt incredibly stiff and reserved. It seems like no one even cracks a smile or makes a joke within the first 30 min of the movie minus one half-hearted Obi-Wan quip or the gungans - which brings me to my next point. The cgi characters in TPM look amazing even today which is one of the triumphs of that movie. They are extremely expressive and convincing which is why most of the human actors feel so dull in comparison. This was really baffling to me. Two perfect examples of this would be the underwater scene and the part where the jedi free the queen. The underwater core is set up as this thrilling scene with giant scary sea monsters and a bongo that seems to be running out of fuel or something. Wow I love that set up and the visuals are great but the jedi's near total apathy during the situation just sucks the life out of that scene. I get that the jedi are supposed to be in control of their emotions and all but they're still allowed to show fear and surprise like they do in the rest of the movies. The other scene feels even worse tbh. So the jedi sneak into the city and ambush a bunch of guard droids- shots are being fired, Jar Jar is freaking out as usual, and the droids are being cut down like butter. How do the prisoners react to all this action? They just stand there, no noise, no surprised expressions, no fear, and these are supposed to be somewhat regular people, not jedi. This stuff takes me out of the movie and makes me feel like I shouldn't be having fun watching it. As much as people hate on the romance scenes in AOTC, I'll take that over characters not emoting at all and acting like cardboard cutouts any day.

 

The war and the trade negotiations are both merely distractions from the real stuff happening... the real fun is in watching Palpatine slowly taking over the galaxy without anybody realising what he's doing.
If you focus too much on what are really just distractions, then you're missing out on the real important stuff that is happening, how he bamboozles the Jedi and why they're powerless to stop him.
It's a master class in the silent coup and asymmetrical warfare - Palpatine vs everybody else, but without them realising it.

 

Was the opinion at the time that TPM's Yoda puppet was superior to AOTC's CG Yoda? I can't imagine that being the case.

 

Definitely wasn't for me. I didn't mind that it was a puppet, just that it didn't really look like a younger version of the OT Yoda. The CGI replacement did.
But if they'd gotten the puppet to look right, agewise, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

 

CGI Yoda > puppet Yoda for me and I am including any version of puppet Yoda in this

 

Another thing that I really like about the whole PT, but especially AOTC, is the portrayal of war. The OT sort of portrays war as something "good" in the sense of something necessary to bring back peace. The PT does portray war as a tool of those who seek power to gain more power and wealth. A war that brings nothing but pain for the many and ultimate power for the very few. That's refreshing to see and observe in a major blockbuster.

 

I must have missed the trade negotiations in TPM. The way I recall it, they never happened because they were interrupted by an action scene.

 

that’s great it works for you

For me the main characters, aside from Kenobi, just are not that interesting. Anakin and Padme are just awkward and kind of annoying to me. I thought Padme was at her best in TPM, especially during the re-taking of Theed palace, and her role in forming a truce and alliance with the Gungans. She’s great in that film.

The galactic politics stuff doesn’t bother me at all, it’s even sort of interesting, I kind of even would’ve preferred more possibly. Again I think TPM does the best job in this area. It immediately sets up the situation with Naboo and the blockade by the TF, and the Jedi learn of the Sith coming back. It’s all very easy to understand and makes sense but at the same time is pretty interesting and does a decent job of introducing all the various groups.

 

It’s literally said on screen.

Sio Bibble: Your negotiations seem to have failed, Ambassador.
Qui-Gon Jinn: The negotiations never took place.

 

The way people talk about it, you'd think TPM was just two hours of wall-to-wall trade negotiations and Senate debates.

 

I like the homoeroticism of Obi-Wan and Anakin in the lift
“I haven’t felt you this tense since we fell into that nest of Gundarks”

I thought Obi-Wan was going to stand behind him and start massaging his shoulders.

 

You're of course allowed to interpret that scene whichever way gives you the most personal enjoyment, but I believe most viewers would interpret it as an entirely platonic interaction between two males with a close emotional bond. Obviously there's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with onscreen depictions of homosexual relationships, though in this case I would question whether your preferred reading is appropriate given that Obi-Wan is an older man in a mentor position to Anakin and relates to him as a father. For that reason, I would personally stick with the intuitive reading of the scene, though again, I'm not trying to say you can't interpret it the other way if that gives you satisfaction.

 

I'm pretty sure he is "trolling."

 

I pray that George Lucas doesn't hear you. He'll sneak into LFL and replace the puppet Yoda from ESB and ROTJ with a CG Yoda.....

 

Quite obviously. Even in that very first scene it becomes clear what Anakin is so excited about: seeing Padmé again after 10 years, that and nothing else. Trying to interpret some sort of erotic aspect into Anakin and Obi-Wan's friendship/master-apprentice relation, is pretty much the silliest thing I have ever read.

 

The meme that Lucas is better at ideas than execution...

We looked at the PT in a different way than the OT, at least though of us who grew up the OT. Too many self-consuncious. Oh, am I’m not cool for trashing Lucas. As Josh of Den of Nerds said, he was walking on egg shells for liking the PT. That’s not say that a lot of negative opinions aren’t genuine. Here especially. But of PT hate was posing to be cool.

 

Sorry, not exactly sure what you are trying to express. Do you mean it is/was "cool" to some people ("fans"????) to hate on the PT? To me hatred is NEVER "cool", as a matter of principle, least of all of a movie series that you claim to be a fan of. Sure, everyone is free to dislike whatever they want. But maybe those "fans" should take the message of their beloved OT more to heart. One of the core messages of the entire SW saga is that hatred is never a good thing, in this case expressed as "leading to the dark side". Sure, we all hate murderers, rapists, child molesters etc. But in this case prequel hate has definitely gone too far and is turned against perfectly decent and innocent people. It's sick and disgusting to personally (or rather online where you can hide behind a stupid user name) attack actors and other artists involved, to the point where they develop severe emotional problems and are even almost driven to suicide. I read that not even John Williams was spared from hatred by "fans" who booed at prequel themes played in concerts. This behavior is NOT OK or acceptable in any way!!! If you don't like SW or any particular aspect of it the STAY AWAY from it. Nobody forces you to watch them. But stop personal attacks, you morons. Do you really feel "cool" for driving Jake Lloyd into alcoholism, depression or worse? Do you feel better about yourselves now? I sometimes almost feel ashamed to call myself a fan of a fictional story when other "fans" are such extremists so full of hatred.

 

You give a good argument.

It wasn’t cool to like Star Wars then. As Josh at Den of Nerds admits. Or the guy at Star Wars Theory.

A guy repeated the meme that AOTC looked like a video game. Well, are we saying that visuals alone that KOTOR alone was terrible? And should its visuals be of of AOTC quality. But it was cool then to diss Lucas and the PT. A person doesn’t like the PT or has problems with it? Fair enough. But back then you were so uncool if you liked them. At least in Hawaii as a grad student with friends from everywhere but Hawaii. And the Internet. Especially the trashy media. And I admit I’m biased. When Jon Stewart said III’s tilted l was maybe’’Another Disappointment’ I laughed. It sounded like a real

It seemed to me to be a trend. It’d cool to hate the prequels. AOTC looked like a video game.