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CT Why freeze Luke?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Darth_Nabb, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Darth_Nabb

    Darth_Nabb Jedi Grand Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Yeah, I know the real answer is "because it's way more cinematic," but is there a halfway-decent in-universe explanation for why Vader would go to the extraordinary length of freezing Luke in carbonite when we saw in ANH how simple and effective stun guns are in the GFFA?
     
  2. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 29, 2005
    I guess just to be cruel?

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Stun effects are temporary, and the Force gives Jedi many tricks up their sleeves when it comes to escaping confinement. Carbon freeze is far safer for the jailer when transporting captured Jedi.
     
  4. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 22, 2003
    I always wondered where Lucas got the idea , had it been used before ?
     
  5. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 9, 2021
    Also, if Luke was powerful, maybe Darth Vader thought that Luke would be easier to convert if he was weak from effects of hibernation sickness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
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  6. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Because Vader wanted to KICK SOME ICE
     
  7. Lord-Skywalker

    Lord-Skywalker 12X Hangman/9X Wacky Wed Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Jul 8, 2002
    The plan was to have Ahch-To planted in his mind during the entirety of hibernation.
    Somehow it still worked.
     
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  8. R.D.

    R.D. Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 26, 2015
    Vader watched some Bond flicks and didn't want to take any chances with detaining the hero...
     
  9. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

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    May 18, 2017
    Jedi are dangerous, so this is probably the safest way to go. Plus he did not want to have to kill Luke.
     
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  10. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014
    So glad that they added this plot point, it GAVE us the best scenes and set in the entire SW franchise IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  11. YT-2400

    YT-2400 Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 3, 2008
    True if the process works. All the scenes beforehand with Lando, Han, and Boba suggest this was an untried process of imprisonment. If Han had died during freezing, then what was plan B?
     
  12. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 9, 2021
    From the scenes, my understanding was that freezing people was common method, but just not in a crude facility for freezing gas like they have on Cloud City.
     
  13. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    In addition to all the above, he’s putting Han into carbonite in order to make Leia and Chewbacca suffer. He’s doing this as part of the “trap” for Luke, to lure him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  14. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    There's nothing in the dialogue that suggests that carbon freezing was a common method to freeze people. In fact, the dialogue suggests the exact opposite:

    "Lord Vader, we only use this facility for carbon freezing. If you put him in there, it might kill him." - Lando Calrissian
     
  15. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 9, 2021
    I must disagree. Luke was a valuable prize, and I do not think that Vader would put him through untried method of incapacitate him. Vader was very casual about it also, and his dialogue "This facility is crude but it should be adequate to freeze Skywalker for his journey to the Emperor" suggest to me that flash freezing was used as a method, but never by using such a basic facility which was set up to freeze Tibanna gas.

    In my opinion, this is what Lando was suggesting, that the machinery wasn't suitable for freezing humans, not that humans had never been frozen before.
     
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  16. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    But Lando's argument was about the method itself, not about the facility being crude. That the facility is for carbon freezing, nothing else. That if Vader wants to carbon freeze Luke, then he might die.

    If carbon freezing was a common method to hold people, Lando's point about carbon freezing doesn't make any sense. The implication is that carbon freezing people is not just uncommon, but could be lethal to a living person.

    Vader, for some reason, was confident in the method despite the danger, and only tested it on Han first because of the crudeness of the facility. But Vader is shown as the exception in knowing about such thing, not the rule.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  17. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 9, 2021
    I can see how dialogue is possibly ambiguous, but if you give emphasis to the word "this" when Lando describes "We only use this facility for carbon freezing" then it can be taken that he is warn Vader that this particular freezing chamber at Cloud City is not suitable for Vader's plan to freeze a human, not that the method is unknown or uncommon. I think that is reinforce with Vader's approach, describe below. Also, the carbon freeze chamber is being prepared by the Ugnaughts, and the block is fitted with life support or monitor systems flashing on the side. I don't think Vader invent these in the time there, they must have known to fit these to sustain a frozen person.

    As I say above, I think that Lando was trying to warn Vader that the crudity of their freeze facility made it unsuitable for freezing people. I think that Vader was confident because freezing people or prisoners was something that already happened in the galaxy, but with specific equipment more suited to the task.

    Also to reinforce idea, C-3PO's reaction is one that suggest familiarity "Oh they encased him in carbonite, he should be quite well protected, if he survived the freezing process that is" So encasing somebody has happened before otherwise C-3PO wouldn't have any idea whether he be well protected or not. But he was unsure whether the process at this facility was survivable.

    Also, Lando says "Yes he's alive, and in perfect hibernation" - so again this suggest that Lando knows what hibernation is, and how to spot whether it has worked or not. Last, hibernation sickness seems to be known about from symptoms of somebody who is just been freed from freezing.

    All these thing point to the idea I think, that this was a known about method of making a prisoner, and it was the facility itself been questioned for suitability.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  18. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014
    Funny that having watched ESB for all these years its intimated that carbon freezing a prisoner was untried and dangerous, yet didn't they retcon it in TCW when Anakin and the others were frozen in carbonite to get in to a prison(?) and avoid sensor detection. So I'm sure someone watching all this afresh as a new fan would now say Vader knew all along it would be ok as he'd personally been frozen before.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  19. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    But Lando doesn't emphasize "this". He's saying as a matter of fact that that facility is for carbon freezing. Vader had already noted before that the facility was crude yet he found it adequate nonetheless. Carbon freezing, not the crudeness, was the main problem that Lando was warning about.

    If carbon freezing people was common, then the only logical reply to Lando's "We only use this facility for carbon freezing." is "So? Carbon freezing is exactly what I want to do."

    Lando is warning about carbon freezing itself. That that's the only purpose of the facility (crude or not) they are on. That if carbon freezing is what he planned to do, then it's dangerous and deadly. If it was common, nobody else would be as worried as they were. But everyone else was worried. Vader was the only one confident that it was a fine method to hold someone.

    IIRC, even in TCW it was considered dangerous. And once again, Anakin was the only one confident about it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  20. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 9, 2021
    Sorry I may be confusing in what I say. Lando doesn't emphasis "this" in his tone, but what I am perhaps suggest is that the narrative point was to place emphasis of "this facility" in particular being unsuitable. The facility on Cloud City was use for carbon freezing, but it was a crude facility for Tibanna Gas only, flash frozen and encapsulated into carbonite blocks, not for people. I think it interesting that Lando says "you might kill him" as if he already knows that freezing people doesn't necessarily kill them, but it might here.

    As I suggest also, if nobody had ever done this before to a person, how did they know to fit life support systems and monitors that tell Lando he's alive and in perfect hibernation? How did Lando know what perfect hibernation look like? Why did C-3PO act as if he knew what had happen to Han and what Han's status should be as long as the freezing process work? All these things say to me that this had been done, and seen or heard about before.

    Whichever way as @AndyLGR says above, it is one of best scenes in entire saga, and it good to exchange idea about it with you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  21. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    I never said that nobody had ever done it to a person. That wasn't the argument. The argument was wether it was common or not.

    3PO's comments are nothing but levity. An attempt at finding the silver lining in a very dreadful, dangerous and deadly situation. Yes, the carbonite casing will protect the content, whatever it is. Living or not.

    Perfect hibernation means that he was stable in his unscounscious, static state. Lando had to check for his vital signs.
     
  22. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 9, 2021
    From the reactions of C-3PO and Lando, I still believe that the process was known about and has been used before, and that it was the industrial nature of Cloud City's facility that makes the worry about whether using it would kill Luke / Han. There are some Star Wars wiki articles about carbon freezing being a method of long distance space travel before the invent of hyperdrive, and it has been used in legends and made other appearances I think.

    When they have the life support monitor equipment and see it working, they didn't just invent this on Cloud City an hour before. It must be known process to freeze people and be able to read their status when they in suspend animation. Also, hibernation sickness was known about as Leia reassured Han that his symptom were only temporary.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  23. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Isn't there some device that can destroy people who are frozen via carbonite? I remember one in the critically acclaimed EU series, The Glove of Darth Vader.
     
  24. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    Firstly, Vader doesn't use blasters. Secondly, stun effects are temporary.

    Vader himself, as Anakin Skywalker, had experience of being temporarily frozen and transported in the Clone Wars with Obi-Wan and Ahsoka for a mission. Therefore, he knew the process was not life-threatening. I would wager he was one of the few people who knew this, however. It seems to be something of which only people in military and espionage agencies were cognizant. Indeed, this same process is featured in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, which takes place just before TPM, and it is successful. Vader seemed to be unsure of the machines in Cloud City would replicate this procedure in the same manner as the one he experienced several years earlier. After all, he called the facility crude, but he figured it would work, which is why he tested it on Han Solo. He was like, "Okay, bounty hunter. I'll do this, and I'll make it a lot easier for you to transport Captain Solo to Jabba the Hutt. He'll be silent, and you'll have a work of art."

    I guess Vader did not believe he could persuade Luke to join him then and there, and he may have been anxious about the prospect of revealing that he was his father. Therefore, he may have elected to freeze him in order to subdue him and then make the revelation and offer when Luke was recovering from being unfrozen. Of course, we all know that Luke escaped the freezing chamber and continued the duel. This forced Vader to reveal his parentage and his plan. Cue the iconic scene.
     
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  25. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 22, 2003
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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