BTS Why I think the Star Wars saga ended in Return of the Jedi

I think Star Wars is, basically, the six movies. They tell a solid story (okay the prequels are not great films but they suceed at telling this story), with beginning and end. Everything else (spinoffs, tv series, novels), no matter how cool, is just that, spinoffs

 

Skip the sermo humilis and simply state "the Star Wars saga ended in Return of the Jedi". The burden upon a detractor is then immediately to demonstrate how it did not end. The low hanging fruit is that the empire was too big to fail, and so, it cannot be so simple that the empire fell just because its central leadership and hardware were destroyed. (One might cite that Chancellor Palpatine said, "I am the Senate." And that has implications on this question.) That still doesn't get someone from end credits ROTJ SE 1997 to whatever it is Wrath of Khan plagiarist Abrams put up on the screen in 2015. And if one subscribes to Disney's multi-media distribution of essential content for a complete rendition of what *they think happened, there is also not enough to be gleaned from state of play 1997 to get to the strange plot-god-thumb place where Mon Mothma is Neville Chamberlain. There is not enough to be gleaned from state of play 1997 to get to the strange plot-god-thumb place where Han and Leia bear a changeling Rosemary's Baby. Both the OT and the PT contradict the strange plot-god-thumb place where all of a sudden a gaping Unknown Regions (TM) gets inserted into GFFA, so that plagiarists are given a safe space to plagiarize in.

Maybe to a discriminating adult palette the story did not end with ROTJ SE. But what Disney has offered so far is not a corresponding answer to any genuine outstanding / prominent possibilities that erupted from / were mobilized by the state of play as of 1997.

Without having read any Disney content, I have to agree that the public miasma over public figure Leia's heritage should be an excellent source of dramatic tension. But that is not enough to bring down whatever it is that all the Rebel Alliance was fighting for over all three OT movies. Scandal happens daily or weekly. Someone collapsing representative democracy overnight does not happen daily or weekly. EU / "Legends" or any other takes on what happened next. That being said, this is greek stage about family, and the environs don't really matter and reflect and are a reflection of the central family being considered. So if someone cites Chancellor Palpatine's "I am the Senate" as a basis for understanding how the Empire fell apart overnight without him, then the New republic ought not to be protected from that same standard of essentialism with respect to Leia being a scion of Vader. Except... the Rebel Alliance was bigger than Leia, and Lucas was at pains to paint such a picture as of ROTJ Briefing Scene. That particular scandal ought not spell doom for the restored Republic. It could be excellent minor drama. If it goes higher than that, then one is human tracking in nature / genetic heritage being one's destiny and nurture having no say. And one is also assaulting the experiences of those who fought for the restoration of Republic to assert that they gained no ability to nurture with respect to the worst of nature they had seen.

So what did Abrams do?...

 

I will always stand by the statement that the sequels should have centered around a war between the New Republic/Jedi Knights vs. Extragalactic Dark Side-wielding invaders.

 

After watching ROTJ last night at a small theater, the hopes were that the Empire would be dealt a crippling blow. Doesn't mean that they had everyone surrender, but with their loss at the battle of Endor, DS2 being destroyed, and the Emperor and Vaders death, now a New Republic can be created. A lot of politics filled in with the years after until TFA showed the First Order rising from the ashes of the Empire. The term ashes would imply that not much was left after ROTJ. There was many more victories against evil oppression in the years after.
Of course growing up with ROTJ, I would be okay if it was the end. It wrapped everything perfectly. Unless you really think all those Ewoks may have missed a trooper or two.

 

I would like to see how it will end now that the ST is well underway, and I will admit to being pumped about Episode VII back in 2012.

However, I agree that ROTJ was the basically the perfect ending and that anything that followed would undo that in some way or another. That was true of the post ROTJ EU material to a degree, though I did and still do enjoy it.

 

I was delighted in 1999 when the saga continued on, even though the results were often mixed.

I’m delighted in 2019 that the saga has been continued even further and now that it’s about to end, I am happy with the results.

 

I feel that the Star Wars saga could have continued beyond TPM-to-ROTJ. But I think the Skywalker family saga should have ended with ROTJ. I don't mind the addition of "Solo" to the family saga. But I wish that Disney had not added the Sequel Trilogy to it.

 

For pretty much every 'should it have ended at x?' scenario I'm somewhat in two minds. After one film? After three? Six? In each case there are pros for it ending there, but at the end of the day, I would overall rather look forward to new Star wars than not, even if the results are not always exactly what I'd hoped for.

 

Even if I don't care for every film I know that others do.... that's enough reason for me. No one is forcing me or anyone else to watch movies I don't like.

Don't like the PT? Don't watch it and don't pay any attention to the story changes

Don't like the ST? Same thing.

If you literally only like ANH you could ignore every single thing that came after it.... Everyone has their own personal canon and interpretation anyways.

 

I'm glad that Star Wars content didn't end with those six movies.

Episode-numbered Skywalker Saga movies beyond #6 should never have been made. That's not a response to the ST, it's a position I've held since 1983. Though the ST confirmed my stance 100%.

So I don't know how to respond to this poll as I don't know how to interpret this question.

 

I agree given what we have at the moment but you don't think Lucas could've developed a satisfying sequel trilogy?

 

No, all the conflicts and character arcs were resolved and the emotional impact had crescendoed. That's the point where you want "The End." Even Lucas held for many years that there was no story to tell after VI. The treatments he had closer to the Disney sale were, from all we've heard, about exploring the nature of the Force, not continuing the stories of the characters. Which may have been "satisfying" but it's a story that complements the Skywalker Saga, rather than continues it.

 

I hear you but once you see something it's kind of difficult to ignore it.

 

That's true. Guess it would have been more like an epilogue. Wish we got to see it anyway.

 

Exactly! Ever since Lucas finished his six-part Saga I've been a firm believer that it was literally impossible to make another trilogy that was still part of the same story. As you say, the conflicts and character arcs were finished. Episode 6 is "The End", and there is absolutely nothing left hanging that requires a resolution.

The ST 100% confirmed what I already knew.

The idea that Lucas would've created something that would magically become the natural conclussion of the story devolped over the six movie is absurd. He'd probably create something much more original and interesting (not necessarily better, and FOR SURE not better recieved!), but not a part continuation of the same story.

So all in all, I'm actually glad that Lucas didn't make a ST.

And I'm also glad that they're creating new SW content. It's bound to be somewhat entertaining at least, and for me it's easy to separate the new content from the six-part saga that I love.

 

And epilogue is just that, and epilogue. A movie needs conflict, needs a story. And when the story reaches its climax, it's over. That's why you never get to see the "what comes after" part of these kind of stories. After Harry defeats Voldemort, the story is over. After Frodo destroys the Ring, the story is over (it takes a while, but it's over). When the Emperor is killed and the Death Star is destroyed, the story is over. (Similarly, when the Emperor is killed AGAIN and the Ultimate Order fleet is destroyed, the story is over, exactly as it ended three movies ago!).
You can't create another movie just to explore how the "new world" is working. That's fan-fiction, not a story.

 

RotJ have us a satisfying ending.
My point of view, I consider the ST a modern reboot of the CT more than a continuation (this is just my head canon).
It lets me watch and enjoy both separately

 

Anything under Disney is fan fiction since they didn't use Lucas' ideas. Until we get a leak of George's treatments for the Sequel Trilogy, I will consider the Expanded Universe that was published under Lucas' ownership to be the true continuation of the Saga.

 

Yep - ROTJ did end about as perfectly as you could hope for: Luke redeems his dad and sees the force ghosts, Han and Leia hook up, Lando and Wedge are all smiles, Palpatine is a goner, etc, etc. Its not open ended at all and this is why the sequels had such an uphill battle. There really isnt more to tell here and it'd be quite easy and satisfying to just stop watching at the end of ROTJ. I love Rogue One so Id watch that between EP3 & EP4 but thats it. The sequels are OK. Sort of. I guess.

 

I think the saga could have continued. I don’t consider RotJ a perfect ending to the saga in that Luke doesn’t start to rebuild the Jedi. That’s the story I’ve been waiting for since RotJ. The ST chose not only to not tell that story, but to destroy Luke’s story and copy it. That easily renders it illegitimate to me. A story that cannot exist besides by destroying its source content is invalid to me. Therefore, the Legends version of the Jedi coming back after RotJ is my sequel.

 

Yeah, there was a story to tell after RotJ that would have continued the Saga and brought it to a close. Lucas' intent of rebuilding the Republic and having the main theme of the trilogy being moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned is the true SEQUEL trilogy, not the REBOOT fan fiction trilogy we got from Disney.