Why isnt there an election on Moderators?

I think elections on moderators would be an excellent idea. - SOME

This alone is reason enough to not enact this idea.

How obvious is it that people are unhappy with the way things are run? - Wench

'People' meaning MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

have you considered the ideas are stupid and realistically unworkable? - Ignant

You shouldn't ask stupid questions to which you already know the answer.

Jeff, everytime a user posts a thread about this out people come in and say:
This has been discussed here , and here and again here . - wench

Because it has, and nothing came of it, and if you clicked the links and read the threads (the first five and last five posts are normally more than enough to get an idea of what they consist of) you would have your answer without having to continue with the joke of a thread.

STAR WARS MESSAGE FORUM - Paisano

YOU SIR ARE AN AMERICAN HERO

 

Jesina_Dreis suggested:

In June, post a thread in Resource with a few questions (specific or open ended) for fan fic users to answer about the fan fic mods. Have the "evaluations" sent to a mod/manager/admin who's impartial to the fan fic boards for review by the non-fanfic mods. That way, there's no so-called binding decision made so you don't have to worry about whether votes are legit or not, and it's solicited feedback so users feel as if their opinions are valuable to the administration. If there are a lot of complaints about a single mod in particular, it might be something to look into to determine if they're valid complaints, a grudge that a certain group is holding, or the work of one whiny user with a lot of socks.






I REALLY think your idea is a good one! Well presented and very workable... One that I hope is implimented. It's a good way to get feedback without pressuring the comunity and airing dirty laundery...

Admins, are you listening?

 

Thanks, Breezy. It was inspired by the suggestion about having Mods stand for re-election. More manageable and without the concerns of voting, I think.

Jes

 

If users have comments about a mod, why don't they just PM that mod (if it's praise) or the head admin (if it's a complaint), instead of waiting for someone to ask for their opinion?

 

It's a suggestion because obviously SOME people don't feel that their input is valued. A simple solicitation like this could do a lot. There's a reason the election thing keeps coming up - some people would like to have more of a say. An election is unworkable, but soliciting reviews, so to speak, should be possible.

Jes

 

But if they don't think their input is valued, how will that change if someone asks for feedback? They'll still see it as nothing more than a ploy to try to make it look like the administration actually cares.

 

I disagree. I really think people would be interested and appreciative if the Mods took such an initiative.

Jes

 

I still stand behind Jesina_Dreis suggestion 100%. I think if people were asked specifics, and this was an organised attempt to solicit opinions as apposed to waiting on people to send a PM which they feel may or may not be even noticed, there would be more interest.

 

I'm against that idea, for one main reason. It's not exciting enough. Not sexy enough.

I think an even better one is for teh administration to hire trolls to post Comms threads calling out specific moderators on whatever faults they have. Such as being too ban-happy, locking viable topics, or being too sarcastic for the forums.

That way, it opens the door for other serial trolls to use that Comms thread to commit chaos in the specific forums administered by the particular mod such as a call to spam the Head Administrator, etc.

Why go the boring route, when we all can have some fun with the process?

 

Didn't I propose this about a month ago?

 

Breezy: So, what you and Jes are reccomending is basically the same thing currently being done in EUC and done previously in Literature? Just based off what I've seen, it seems to be more successful in some fora than others. The funny thing is, I don't think a single negative (and serious) thing was said about the Lit mods, and the only negative comments in the EUC one (still going on, but generating very little traffic) are "Why didn't we see this earlier?"

Probably has something to do with the fact that the fora that have the right atmosphere for that sort of thing are the ones with the most intelligent and ToS following members, meaning fewer problems with the mods.

 

So, what you and Jes are reccomending is basically the same thing currently being done in EUC and done previously in Literature?


Well, Jes proposed it for FF, and I think it's a brilliant idea.

Suffice to say I think Fan fiction could use a kick in the pants, and as 'we' have always been a very good comunity for 'self policing', such a format would work very well to address some of the 'unspoken' issues...

 

I agree that Fan Fiction would be able to handle an idea like this. But it likely would have to be addressed as to "why" it should happen before it actully does for Fan Fiction. We've always been a strong community that doesn't have many problems. This reminds me like the time when we had a Focus Group. But it was conducted in a private forum. Not out in the open for all to see.

 

Actually, there are a couple of forums that could use a 'shake up', but most people have just thrown their hands up in apathy....

Honestly, if you guys are going to act like every time a poster brings up the idea that not all mods are effective that there is a mob lynching in the works, you'll never get honest feedback and opinions.

But this concept is also reinforced by statements brought up in this thread.

1)Ideas presented still have to fit within the framework of the boards. Popular elections have been analyzed, and debated, and dissected, and discussed from here to sundown.

They simply don't work.

However, "mod elections" shouldn't be the end all be all for user involvement.

Now, both current mods and forum mods know the sheer amount of debate that takes place in the MS regarding mod selections.

No one is simply signed off on to become a mod, as we (as in the collective "we") all take it very seriously. Granted, this debate isn't made public, but there are valid reasons for this.

There is a level of trust required by everyone, simply based on necessity.

2)If individual users want to change some of the staleness, they have to get involved.

Why is it that some people only make themselves heard when there is a complaint?

Suggestions are always welcome. That doesn't mean that all suggestions will, or can be implimented, but they do represent a level of investment for all.

 

I was using fan fiction as an example, but no, it wouldn't be like those that you linked to, Pellaeon-Firke. I'm not saying a thread in each board for "What can we do better?"

I'm suggesting that at various points throughout the year, the administration put up a thread asking the board's regular users to answer a few questions specifically about the mods, PM'ing their response to an admin. Someone suggested that current mods stand for re-election and that was dismissed as not feasible and I completely understand that. The reason it was suggested is that people obviously feel that there is a need for reviews of moderators. Such a review could take this form, rather than an election form.

Sara-Kenobi - I'm not saying that fan fiction is desperately in need of such a thing. I was more or less using fan fic as an example.

Mr44 - What I'm suggesting is a way for people to get involved, and to feel like the administration wants them to be involved. It wouldn't have to be all complaints. In fan fic it likely would not be all complaints.


Jes

 

I'm not saying that fan fiction is desperately in need of such a thing.

In all honesty, I think it is. Either way, if I'm wrong and the majority disagrees with me then things will just roll along hunky dory, but I really think such a user survey would provide 'interesting' results.

and 44

Why is it that some people only make themselves heard when there is a complaint?


Complacentcy is human nature

 

I dunno, the way I feel about it is that you can't run an internet message board like you do a country, for example. What I mean is that when you're born in a certain country, leaving that country and becoming a citizen of another country is pretty complicated, so it's important that the people approve of how the country is being run. However, this is an internet message board. If you don't like how the administration is running things, simply click the "log off" button and there you go.

I realize that I'm over-simplifying things, but I really think that we're lucky that the administration listens to our input as much as they do. They certainly don't have to. There are sites out there that will ban users if they speak up against the people running the site. I just think we are lucky.

 

In all honesty, I think it is. Either way, if I'm wrong and the majority disagrees with me then things will just roll along hunky dory, but I really think such a user survey would provide 'interesting' results.

I think every board could probably use it, some more than others. I just don't want people to think that I'm saying this all about fan fiction. I think it could be used all over the boards.

I just don't see what the harm would be in trying it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and don't try it again. And if it DOES work, then the Administration gets to see the good and the bad comments (rather than predominantly bad, as it seems that people only PM when there's a complaint, as was mentioned) about mods in particular, rather than the boards in general.

There's no privacy violation, nothing out in the open for people to read, etc. Just direct communication between users and admins.


Jes

 

There's no privacy violation, nothing out in the open for people to read, etc. Just direct communication between users and admins.

Several times in reading your posts, and particularly with this part here, I've thought to myself that we already have something like that, and it's called "Communications". I don't mean to be a smartass or anything, because I know you're serious about this. Rather, it just seems to me that this forum is a place for direct communication between members and the administration, and that direct communication has been going on in this thread.

 

Rather, it just seems to me that this forum is a place for direct communication

And how many of the day to day users actually visit coms?

Sorry, I still think a SURVEY is the best way to go.

 

I realize that. But in comms, no one is asking users for their input on specific board mods.

Clearly, there are some things that some people don't like about certain moderators. Maybe these are fluff complaints and they're alone in how they feel. But maybe they're real issues but people don't feel like it's worth it to PM an admin and complain.

All I'm suggesting is a thread posted in each board or set of boards asking users to PM a specific admin/manager with answers to a few questions about each moderator. It would be a specific survey about a specific moderator soliciting information.

Honestly, how many people would contact a politician to say "this is how a feel about ____"?
Not too many.
But if that politician's office sent out a survey, they'd get a much higher volume of communication.
I know - I've seen this in action. Surveys work far better than a general "you can let so-and-so know if you don't like something."

Comms is a very useful thing on these forums, but it's useful for general discussion of various issues, not specific input about specified moderators. The guidelines state that this isn't for discussion about specific moderators, but that's obviously what people want, and they don't feel that random PMs about specific instances are being paid due attention.

People have thoughts on the mods, some good and some bad, but feel like their thoughts aren't valued or cared about.


Jes

 

And how many of the day to day users actually visit coms?

A minority of the regulars here, though there are probably quite a few people who lurk on a regular basis. That only a relatively small number of people would take an active interest in the politics and big picture of the JC is to be expected. It tends to take something particularly large to attract more than the regular Communications crowd into this forum, and when those events fade away, so do most of the people (some do remain, though).

My basic point is that Communications is a place for open communication between the administration and members, however good or flawed it may be. Placing a thread here for "open communication of concerns" would be akin to posting a thread in the JCC for people to talk about "anything".

People who are interested take part here, and those who aren't or don't feel like posting (for whatever reason) don't.

But maybe they're real issues but people don't feel like it's worth it to PM an admin and complain.


Real and serious problems tend to work their way into the attention of the administration, regardless of whether something is done about it or not.

Historically, discussion of specific moderators has been frowned on, or at least discouraged unless there's a good reason for it (in terms of negative discussion). There's something of a burning at the stake or stoning atmosphere that can develop, and I've certainly been guilty of perpetuating that a few times in the past. Part of the problem of discussing specific moderators and specific issues with and about them is that you're dealing with real people, with real feelings and their own ideas. Instead of talking about a politician you've never met, or about something that happened fifty years ago, it's all about people right here. It's tough to maintain a civil discussion about fellow members or moderators. Constructive criticism is ideal, but there's always a few people who want to chime in with garbage or vitrol, instead of contributing something positive. By the same token, moderators have to be willing to step back and look and their actions without being too defensive (assuming there's a problem to begin with).

So, opening the floor for moderator-specific discussion can be quite a challenge, even at best.

 

I long ago stopped suggesting such a thread, because the idea was more or less shot down. The idea that Breezy and I have been talking about for the last several posts is an entirely different suggestion.

I'm not suggesting opening the floor in a public thread for moderator-specific discussion. I'm suggesting that a thread be posted listing specific questions for users of a board to PM their responses about each of that board's moderators.

Jes

 

There's something of a burning at the stake or stoning atmosphere that can develop

Not always, I can name at least a couple mods (Past and present) who would recieve high marks from me in regards to important issues such as visibilty, forum participation, how to differenciate between posting as 'joe user' and when to step in as 'moderator'. These are people I not nessisarily always agree with, but I can respect their position and reasoning.

 

Pardon my misunderstanding .

Say those surveys go out and they come back with mostly good results, but also include some negative feedback about a few moderators, possibly even complaints that have real merit to them.

In your view, what should or would happen next?

Apologies if you've already explained this.